| Build summary | Optimized Quality Build |
| Recommended starting class(es) | Temple Knight |
| Recommended Soul Level | |
|
Recommended stats (Leave at default (**) if not raised) |
|
| Vitality | 40(You can drop End to 36 and Dex to 43, or some combination thereof, and get 45 Vit) |
| Will/Intelligence | 18 |
| Endurance | 40(Can be dropped to 35, I prefer 36 or 37, usually) |
| Strength | 34 |
| Dexterity | 44(Can be dropped to 38, if you must) |
| Magic | ** |
| Faith | 16 |
| Luck | ** |
| Recommended equipment |
Any Quality+5 weapon that you like. Armor is up to you, I prefer a lighter set of armor personally. I'll get this part of the discussion done here: Meat Cleaver. Don't use it for PVP. Seriously. The damage it does is split into magical and physical, meaning it goes through TWO damage reductions. Quality Gaxe+5 only has about 10-15 less AR than MC with this build, and only goes through ONE. Until you get a Quality +5 weapon, though, MC is your go to weapon. As for Great Sword, just use DBS. Even with this Str, DBS>GS. Beyond that, don't make this build unless you plan on using a dex weapon and a strength weapon as a rh1 rh2 combination, or want variety. It's not really worth it otherwise. |
| Recommended spells/miracles |
Spells: Curse Weapon Miracles: Second Chance If you actually have questions about this section, don't even bother trying to PVP. |
| Gameplay tips and progression |
So this is the part where I put justification for the stat's, right? OK, here goes. This is still in progress, by the way. I will be formatting a bit later. First, I need to explain that 2 handing a weapon multiplies your strength by 1.5. In order to counteract this, the developers made Dex scaling slightly better than Str scaling. Not incredibly so, but to the point that it is noticeable. In other words, don't go past 34 STR, because you will spend most of the time 2 handing weapons in order to maximize the bonus to STR. A Quality+5 Kilij with these stats 2 handed will have approximately 320 AR. This is BETTER than a comparable Sharp+5 Kilij with 50 Dex, which has about 315 AR while 2 handed. This holds true for basically every weapon. One handed, these stats give you about 20 AR less. 2 handed, these stats give you equal, or slightly better AR than a comparable str/dex build. This means you will be 2 handing. A lot. The difference in AR is minor while 1 handing, but it is still a difference. Note that the damage calculator is WRONG on Quality Weapons. Some specific weapon AR'sof popular weapons(All weapons are quality+5, testing was done with 36 str/42 dex, so less than optimal stats): Weapon: 1handed/2handed In other words, 2 handed, Quality outdamages both Sharp and Crushing, or, at the very least, matches it, assuming the sharp/crushing has 50 dex/str. 1 handed, you lose about 10 AR on the dex weapons, and maybe 2 AR on the STR ones. It's insane. You actually GAIN AR on some of them. If you want breathing room with the stats, you can drop dex to 38. You lose every advantage over dex weapons, though, as you will now have about 3 AR less. Str weapons are still in your advantage, although by a much reduced amount. With 44 dex, you gain 12 AR over a standard strength build. With 38, you gain…1 or 2, if any at all. If you are dead set on a lower SL or more vitality, drop 3 or 4 from Endurance(or 5 if you're ggdoom), and a few from dex. Do NOT go below 38 dex. Hell, I wouldn't take it below 40 unless you had a serious reason. And 43 is STILL the best place to have it at. I have it at 44 for the sake of making this build sl125 on the dot. I suppose if you dropped 4 from Endurance and 6 from Dexterity, in order to pump vit to 50, it might be worth it. 50 vit is definitely an advantage. Anyway, on to the stat justification: Vitality: This was unavoidable. The only way to pull this build off was to sacrifice Vitality in favor of Versatility. 40 is the minimum, for me, and 40 is my recommendation. You can drop End and/or Dex to suit your needs. Intelligence: Curse Weapon. Plain and simple. Endurance: I use 40, you can reduce it if you don't plan on using many of the heavier weapons. Wouldn't go below 35, though… Strength: 34 strength means that when you 2 hand a weapon, your strength will be 51. This is crucial. Well, actually…You could go 30 str, and bump dex to 48, and keep the same damage while 2 handed…I've done more testing, and 51 is THE str cutoff. After that the AR only grows by 1 on a crushing weapon. Dex: 44 dex is the highest you can get while remaining in range. You can drop strength to 30 and raise dex to 48, if you want…but 43 is really the optimal dex. Magic: 6, the base.You don’t even need to hijack spells from Freke, just get Curse Weapon from Yuria…. Faith: 16 is needed for Second Chance. Luck: This should never be increased except on a BBS build. Ever. Ok, now, I know Ilkar’s Faith Build format had weapon guides, but honestly, you can use EVERY weapon, to great effect, with this build. Just to recap, in two hands, your quality weapons will outdamage crushing+5 weapons with 50 str, and match sharp+5 weapons with 50 dex. In other words, you can use anything, and use it at top level. For example, a Quality +5 Greataxe 2 handed on this build has 12 more AR than a +5 Crushing Greataxe 2 handed on a 50 strength build. That amount of AR difference between quality and sharp is constant, it’s not a percentage. Actual Gameplay Progression is fairly simple. Beat Phalanx, then grab Crescent Falchion, Regenerator’s Ring, and Adjudicator Shield from 4-1, Fluted and Black Leather Armor from 3-1 and the Blessed Mace from 5-1. It is best to save Ostrava, as he gives you a Pure Clearstone, which is very rare, and used for Quality Upgrades. Something to remember is that ONLY a Quality +5 weapon works like this. +4 will not do. I would recommend using the Meat Cleaver for most of the game, so beat 4-1, get the greatclub from 2-1, or buy a club from the Dregling Merchant in world 1. Raise Dex and Vit first, get a bow, and use it on Armor Spider and Flamelurker. It’ll take a while, but it’s doable. After that, get strength to 18 for the cleaver. Go make the cleaver. At this point, you have an excellent weapon. Start upgrading stats as you see fit, but remember not to exceed the build. Farm the reaper in 4-2 for souls, and when you are confident, beat 4-2 and 4-3, to open 4-3 for farming. Save the NPC’s, and take care to keep Ostrava alive, I cannot stress this enough. That Pure Clearstone is a godsend. Once you decide on a weapon to use, start making it Quality. The Imperial Spies in 1-3 are the only way to get chunks of clearstone other than Crystal Lizards, so you might want to farm them. Continue normal progression through the game, at this point, there is nothing special you need to do. Just follow the build. |
SL125 Power and Versatility
This needs some serious formatting….ouch…sorry guys
+1.
Finally, a good quality build. I will most likely raise mine to 135 though for more vitality.
nice build, one question tho, have u tried to use the meat clever with this build? cuz i luv the meat clever and a build that will let me use a clever and a vast selection of weaps is a plus in my books XD!
This essentially IS a meat cleaver build… the only thing different is the choice of weapons. The MC is by far the best "quality" weapon and deals magic damage as well. This build would not fare well against warding, it is purely physical. Also, for the record, this build uses a lot more stats for damage than a polished Dex build for roughly the same damage. Dex builds usually don't 2H though, which is what you rely on as the equalizer. Therefore, they top you on speed damage (dual uchi's) and critical damage from Fatal weapons. Also, the quality uchi will not outdamage the Hiltless, which is the mainstay for any pure Dex build. As for Strength builds… their DBS far outdamages just about anything, assuming they connect… Good stat choice overall, lower the SL to 120 so you have more success invading, add the MC as a weapon and duly note it's damage output vs a quality great axe (keeping in mind magic damage is not affected by warding and works well against all but faith builds), and you're good to go.
NO. nonononononono.
If you split the AR into magic and physical damage, you have to pass through 2 damage reductions. This drops the effective damage by a HUGE amount. I posted the AR comparisons solely so there would be a reference. AR is not the same as damage, and please don't post false information in here again. Of course the build doesn't fare well against warding, neither do STR or DEX builds. Plus, you CAN use DBS on this build, to a decent effect, when 2 handed. I'm not recommending it, but you can.
I can see how you would assume that about the cleaver, but that is just not true. Cleaver has shit magic damage, so even it wont fare well against warding. Plus, the dual reductions make it so that anything other than a build specifically made for LW MC, or a dex build desperate for a greataxe, should NEVER use MC.
I would drop 5 in endurance and go with 45 Vit and send str to 36 but that is just me. Still, solid build. +1
Very nice build +1 from me
But I want your opinion on this variation
Vit 48
will 18
endurance 40
strength 32
dex 34
magic 6
faith 16
luck 7
soul lvl 121
so seeing as you said with your stats you would be stronger than crushing weapons how close would I be with this stats?
oh yeah and you might want to add meat cleaver as one of your possible weapons.
I cannot stress this enough. And the dex is waaaaaay low on that, get it to at least 40. 34/40 gets you kinda close, and imo you dont need that much vit.
okay here is another variation I was going to edit my comment but I guess I was too late for that.
here is what I was going to edit too.
vit 45
will 18
end 38
str 32
dex 38
mag 6
faith 16
luck 7
and one can always use more vit :)
and are you sure that g axe beats MC cause if MC gets beaten only by a little bit on physical damage at 16 faith MC has 90 magic damage plus 28 for a total of 118.
YES I AM SURE.
It doesn't only get beaten by a little bit. The combined magical/physical damage of the MC is about 470. That goes through 2 damage reductions due to the two different types of damage. Greataxe has 460, which only goes through one. I'm sure you follow the logic.
As for your option, I still recommend lower vit. This is not a build for people that need vit.
so a dex build using a mc is better than this build using a meatclever? either way u get a plus from me
No this would be considerably stronger than a Dex build with the MC. However, this with a quality Gaxe would be even better acccording to Cent here.
Basically, yes. ggdoom has the right of it here. Dex would only use MC because it is the only GAxe style weapon they would be able to use to any decent effect. On this build, people automatically think "oh, lets use a MC". Don't. MC is only good with a build dedicated to running it properly, that is to say, a LW MC build.
You are being too harsh…MC can "out-damage" in some cases the quality great axe because it has auto direct hit at the tip and a bit more range. Not to mention for some reason it seems to stunlock more consistently (Probably has to do with the range).
I suppose. It's just not equal in terms of damage per hit. Period. And I'm kinda sick of people that don't know what they are talking about telling me incorrect information. Not you, of course, but the harshness was in response to that. I've been trying to make a good MC build recently, but I'm not sure how it'll work…
A good MC build would be something like this:
Vitality 40
Will/Intelligence 15
Endurance 35
Strength 30
Dexterity 30
Magic 30
Faith 16
Luck **
It is a bit of a glass cannon but it is one of the highest damage outputs you can get. If you are wondering why are Str and Dex equal. From 20 to 30 a point on Str adds 5 AR, a point on dex adds 4 AR. After 30 Str plumets to 1-2 and Dex to 2-3. Magic has a similar scaling.
you really do love the 35 end, dont you?
ive been messing around, thats close to what i ended up with…i only had 26 str, though…interesting about that scaling, though….
EDIT: i agree, split damage from the MC is going to hurt your damage output by a lot, the only exceptions being against warding and mages. The version I designed with this build in mind has 34 strength and 50 dex. In 2 hands, the GrAxe has 479 AR, uchi has ~345, Kilij has ~330, Estoc has 291, and I still have some weapons to forge/double check. Over 44 dex, i think you gain about 12 AR. It's not a lot, but I did it because that's where diminishing returns begins to hit the hardest and I just wanted the extra damage :)