| Build summary | The hardest hitting LW Meat Cleaver build within the active pvp range. Incredibly powerful with nice magdef to back it up. |
| Recommended starting class(es) | knight, temple knight, royal |
| Recommended Soul Level | ** |
|
Recommended stats (Leave at default (**) if not raised) |
|
| Vitality | 45 |
| Will/Intelligence | 15 |
| Endurance | 28 |
| Strength | 20 |
| Dexterity | 30 |
| Magic | 30 |
| Faith | 30 |
| Luck | 7 |
| Recommended equipment |
R1: R2: L1: L2: Armor: Rings: Item slots: |
| Recommended spells/miracles |
Spells: Miracles: |
| Gameplay tips and progression |
This is now possibly the only build on here that completely eliminates the effect of diminishing returns and kicks ass! 694 AR when you buff with light weapon is nothing to scoff at. Obviously, strength builds are going to deal more damage with a cursed DBS, but they are slow and have little magdef and physdef. The cursed GAxe will deal almost equal damage against normal defenses as the MC, but they have much shorter range than the MC, and don't combo nearly as often. In addition, this build severely outdamages a cursed Cleaver, the only exception being against a magdef-stacked foe (few of which I've seen, none of which were honorable players anyway). You can vary your vitality quite a bit, which is nice too because you can alter the build stats if you prefer damage over hp. That said, I strongly recommend closely following the guidelines above. Here's what makes this build special over the other LW Cleaver builds: The magical AR gained on the MC between 16 faith and 30 faith is 38 AR (2.7 AR/point). Doesn't sound like much, but it makes a huge difference because most builds don't have magdef high enough to affect that extra damage (which scales up very well with soul tendency and direct hit bonuses). The gains from putting those points in dex and strength are only 1-2 AR/point. While other weapons suffer greatly at high levels, the MC does to a lesser degree because diminishing returns occur over a greater number of stats. This build simply exploits all three offensive stats (four with LW) with no diminishing returns. You could very well polarize this setup to deal more physical or magical damage, but your average output may not be as high and you lose stat efficiency. Blue's and BP's always die in 1-2 hits if they don't heal or amp their defenses up unrealistically high. You normally deal about 400-750 damage through warding with all soul form bonuses. In normal red stone duels (not including the magdef-stacked warding users, who also tend to be grass munchers and extremely rude), I am dealing roughly: Against faith builds: 500-950 damage/hit I find this build plays much better in soul form, even with mismatched character tendency. The health increase in body form and the extra ring slot aren't helpful in my personal opinion. I recommend mostly using this build for co-op and red stone duels. Body form is good for PvE though, so keep that in mind. In addition, you have ~270 magdef with the DSS, which diminishes damage taken from magical weapons by a lot. The build defaults at 45 VIT, which is doable for PvP. At 28 endurance, you do have to manage your stamina closely so you don't get bs'd because you can't roll away from stamina depletion. This setup also OHKO's any normal-def soul form with 45 vit or less on a direct hit and OHKO's any soul form 50vit mage on a direct hit. If you like this, please vote :) Here is another option with more physAR: 45 VIT 327 physAR, 361 magAR when buffed (688 total). You lose 6 AR, a few points of magdef, and the ability to use blessed weapons as a backup, but you will be doing more consistent damage at the cost of having a narrower range of output values (higher lows and lower highs). Strength has better scaling than DEX because of the bonus in 2 hands, so you still have good stat efficiency. Leveling DEX is not recommended unless you plan to take this build to a higher SL. Your backup weapon for this setup should either be a moon or quality weapon. Crushing weapons are another option (ex claymore). You can progress through your first playthrough as any of the following, but stay within the goal stats for the build: Mage (pushed ToB, makes things pretty easy for the whole game) Recommended setups for the Meat Cleaver: Option 1: Inspired by the BBS setup, the most practical for invasions/duels Option 2: Shieldless, but jumper-ready Option 3: Jumper-ready, weaker LW Option 4: Strong LW, no SC Option 5: SC + strong LW + shield, but difficult to pull off when jumped |
LW Cleaver (SL 125)
why ToB AND ICAT? ICAT doesnt increase LW damage so its extremely useless to have both and to have to switch out all the time never equip ring of magical dullness, you want ring of magical sharpness at all times
Not so! The ToB is used to cast SC and CAN also be used for LW. The iCat, however, applies a more powerful enchantment, which is why it is preferred. You don't HAVE to switch it out, but you sacrifice a weapon slot if you don't, or you settle for "decent" damage from light weapon as compared to "great" damage. Magical sharpness does not increase the effect of LW (only the effect of direct spell damage such as soul ray or firestorm), however, i do believe magical dullness decreases its effectiveness. I mentioned it because you can play this like a faith build with incredibly high magic defense.
It's not very practical to switch, but if you invade and find a nice host, the switch isn't a problem. Or if you're summoned as a blue, you'll usually have plenty of time to cast SC and switch before you jump into battle. If you dont want to switch, use any of the first four options i just posted in the build outline and weigh them to see which is most practical for you. I just prefer option 5 because i have a shield, the MC, and a backup weapon :)
actually… RoMS does increase magical damage, as long as it is casted it increases its damage. also, this is a very unorganized build. i make a basic LW MC build, got 120 deaths 2345 BP's slain, this is my set up:
RH1 & 2:
MC/ToG
LH1 & 2:
ICAT/ Crescent Uchi +5
MC has a KD ability… well… sends them flying. if your jumped do a 3 hit R1 attack and cast LW as your stamina regenerates, perfect strat.
you may ask why do i not use DSS like most build? DSS lowers magic dmg. Uchi's are better for parrying anyway or have MB for this (casting LW while hyper adds almost 400 mag dmg, requies full hyper set though)
ideal Stats:
45
15
37
30
34
30
16
7
Yields 670 dmg per hit on average, 1102 while hyper moding with clever rats and MB
honestly, im a very undderated player on DS but ive beated ever player worth noting numerous times, not that my opinion WILL matter to you, but i like your build very much as previously stated, a few less than ideal stats and too many weapons, reading your replies… an Mc build has failed to slay my faith build yet, whom has 34 deaths and 1001 BP's slain
Okay, I want to end the confusion: Light Weapon is NOT affected by any kind of magic-boosting equipment INCLUDING HYPER MODE. I tested it myself, but here is the link to prove it.
http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/light-weapon
i don't use meat cleaver but i do fine with 20 endurence, u really don't need all that i thikg u should nerf the endurence a bit for more dex
No, trust me, you want the full bar. it's tempting to put more points into dex or str, but hold off and consider this: are you better off with a slightly more powerful single or two-hit combo? or would you rather be capable of a full 3-hit combo that promises to break second chance for all but the mightiest faith build (DSS and Magical Dullness) or outright kill them? If you wish to lower END, drop it to 30 at the lowest. Allocate your stats as you like, this build is just a guideline. If you don't favor blessed weapons, follow the stats in parentheses. Thanks for the suggestion though :D
I noticed that to fully use meat cleaver to its potential you get to around SL 200 which is too high for decent company. mainly due to light weapon scaling course you could stick with cursed weapon but why limit your self its nice to have options. with 3 decent bonuses 2 great at SL 712 this thing is bad @$$ only other weapon that is useful up there is blue blood.
P.S. i got one guy at SL 712 the long hard way NEVER doing that again
A lot of people say life has it's bumps in the road.
Well I have not had any. As long as I'm still breathing I call this ISHT smooth sailing.
Tears are for the strong. Alot of us weak men cant cry anymore.
Edit: with the new build setup, your AR is 451 unbuffed, 694 with LW
That's 295 physical AR and 156 magical + 243 from LW (399 magical AR total)
Huh. A LW MC with a blessed twist. Dunno how I missed that. lol. Never seen it and as sketchy and spaced as the stats are I can see this as working. +1 from me. Good job
thank you :) the stats are spaced quite a bit, but you use every point in your attack and significantly minimize diminishing returns. The faith fallback is so helpful, especially when you are jumped. The magdef is quite nice as well ^_^ I highly recommend the blessed claymore if you use the version of the build with higher faith.
Edit: the blessed claymore does not deal enough damage to be useful. You're better off with the hiltless or a quality/moon weapon.
Beautiful way to exploit MC's magic damage! Most newbs think a 50 dex and str MC is better : /. You should join the forums, some nice build you got there!
+1
EDIT: you should drop end to 35 since 35 end and 40 end is almost the same thing.
This build looks really good, even thought I despise the Meat Cleaver to cellular level. I'm much more of a BBS man myself. The stat boosting for this weapon is amazing because it has two "S" and an "A". I don't normally use the ICAT, because I don't like losing all of the MP, but I think that you might need a little bit more than 15. With that, you can only cast Light Weapon one time before spicing it up. Now, for you, I have no doubt that you can kill 9/10 enemies before it runs out, nut I always like being able to cast a spell at least twice without having to heal. I almost always use a female, because their armor looks waaaaaayyyyyy better. All in all, this is an amazing build and I give it a plus 1.
To Astrichthyes, sorry I haven't been online in a while. Im fixing my PS3, after my little brother broke it, and I have to buy another copy of Demon's Souls, my fried broke my other one. Once Im done, hopefully I will see you online. Chao!!!
"Although my brother left me for dead
And he tried to kill me multiple times,
After the first failed attempt
I still love him…" -Cecil FFIV
Thank you :) you gain about 60 AR from LW if you use the iCat over the ToB, which can be the difference between incredible damage and so-so damage (especially with the damage bonuses in soul form), but I'm not sure it makes as much of a difference in a BBS combo as the one and two hit moveset of the MC. I dont normally have trouble rebuffing because I do it after backstabbing and i always spice at the beginning of battle after buffing the first time. I look forward to seeing you in DS soon :)
Good stuff sir, a solid MC build almost identical to my own. The only thing I have realized using this build is that you will be needing the 40 endurance for all the stamina hungry attacks, so 35 is not an option.
At 120 you will be weaker than most builds but at 130 to 135 as host, you will begin to rock the house.
I actually didn't have a problem at 120 since I had 40 End and 30 Vit. I see 35 as workable since your attacks do enough damage to break SC for most builds with an R1-R2 combo. If it doesn't crack then, a wakeup groundstab is always enough to finish that effort. Aside from that, i chose a higher SL because it completes the build and works wonders for duels and co-op. I don't normally host because I get invaded all the time by people using spell/miracle glitches or might as well because their lag is so horrible (getting backstabbed from 10 feet away is not fun…).
Have you ever heard of PinkMage? He often hosts and all he uses on any of his builds: polearms, spiked shield, scraping spear, estoc, storm ruler, and running firestorm. The first day i tested this build out, i was dying to meet him again because I was tired of the bastard jumping me and winning by cowardly means, and it happened. I invade, cast SC, and distance myself as he stands still by the archstone (probably messaging someone). I wait til he notices me, bow, and buff the MC. Without even bowing, he charges with his 2-handed spiked shield and I dodge. The same thing happens twice more. I finally stand my ground and hyperarmor him. R1-bashes against shield-R1-he rolls away, then charges again-R1-he is sent flying, SC broken. Knowing he'll just wait til my buff is gone and try to polespam me (like he always does) or switch weapons to send me flying and recast SC, I roll beside him… Wakeup ground stab for the win! Then i got the hate mail :)
OK Astrichthyes 4 things:
1.You say durable build in description, but with 35-40 vit its the one of the least durable of builds after perhaps glasscannons. Durable is 50 and above.
2. You say you have no trouble dueling at sl 120, well either you have played people with a lower skill level or a worse build. A cursed great axe with 50 str will do noticeably more damage than a LWed MC. After LW is off you will be severely outmatched by and uncursed GAxe due to the infamous split damage. Only thing worth noting is that your range will be longer. Using this build is for people that do not only rely on roll R1 but actually swing more often. As for magic damage being more effective against mages and warding users, also its weaker against faith builds. So it balances out or not even. After sl 130 this build makes more sense. Since you say you dont host, invading with 35 vit is ridiculous, at least for me.Since 35 vit for a pbct invader is 750 hp. You will be one hitted by many weapons and Im not even talking about backstabing. So unless you are really good and confident, 35 vit will not cut it.
3. My build is more similar to TearsOfBlood198´s which makes more sense to me but still this is a viable option if you want extra magic damage from faith and you dont mind getting 1-2 hitted.
4. Finally, yes I have played with PinkMage more than 10 times, and all of those times i was jumped by several players or welcomed by several firestorms or running firestormed or other pathetic strategies that only people like him come up with.
I meant durable as in you have higher magdef than most builds, but i see your point. I should make mention of that. Magical weapons are not nearly as threatening to you because you put points into faith.
I said anything SMALLER than a cursed great axe will not outdamage you, not that you will outdamage the cursed axe. Then again, you will always outdamage a cursed axe against warding, so it really evens out in that respect. If you are against a great axe user and your buff wears off, use NR. It does excellent bs damage and has a fast enough moveset that you can dodge and pick at your opponent. Buff when they heal. It's easy enough if you play right.
I don't have any trouble with faith builds unless they have the DSS out, which is quite rare from what i have seen, and even then, you still do enough damage to be able to beat them; it just takes more finesse. Like i said, i have not met a blue/bp whose SC i couldn't break in more than three hits and the average is generally 2 (even for AdjuShield faith builds). Against a Blessed GrAxe, i wouldn't even attempt to hyper armor them, just bs and ground stab between their attacks. It's all about strategy with faith builds :)
The difference between 30 and 40 vitality is pretty small in soul form, the point is not to get hit. I default my builds at 40 vit, so I am used to playing on the brink. If you prefer more, feel free to adjust your stats accordingly, but like i said: this build performs much better in soul form because you typically deal 700-900 damage per hit. The hyperarmor you gain from R1 attacks usually compensates for the vitality because you have a large range to attack with and hyper armor. I rarely lose with this build compared to every other build i have used, so maybe it's just strategy that prevails. Or the fact that if you swing with the correct timing, the person attacking may only get one or two attacks in before they take two or three hits to the face and die or lose SC at the very least.
As for dueling, most of the souls I encounter are SL 130+. The fact that this is 132 is perfect in levelling the playing field. As for the 120's, most of those builds are physical builds and benefit from huge CW damage stacking anyway. At 120, i would be invading because it is so much easier and you don't worry as much about getting jumped (guys like PinkMage LOVE to troll SL 120 to kill duelists with cheap tricks). At least at 130, you have a decent chance of winning, even if you get jumped. I remember hyper-armoring 3 guys in ONE three-hit combo a few weeks ago. It killed both blues and broke the body's SC.
I looked at Tears' build and, while it is definitely a viable route, it probably isn't going to hit as hard against most builds because it doesn't exploit all four offensive stats as extensively, but it is probably a lot more durable because of the higher vitality. Most builds have low magdef, which is what allows this build hit so much harder than it would if you focused on physical damage. Against a faith build, you still have 295 physical AR to buffer your damage output, so they really aren't very threatening. Yeah, a more physical cleaver build will obviously do more damage against faith builds, but I'm very doubtful it will outdamage this one against physical builds, LW builds, and mages. The most common builds i encounter are spellswords, dex builds, and strength builds, all of which have pitifully low defense against magical damage. Your 399 magical AR exploits that. Without the stacked faith, you're dropping that by 38 AR, which is nothing to scoff at when you consider how that stacks with CT, rings, and about a 30% bonus to your damage with each direct hit (at least, that's what i've estimated it to be based on the damage i've seen in PvE; PvP is a little tougher to calculate that from). If you wanted to polarize your output more toward physical damage and be more effective against faith builds specifically, then stick with 16 faith and raise dex and str. This is indeed a faith hybrid, so you reduce the damage from blessed weapons by a lot with the DSS equipped (another reason faith builds are not very threatening to this build). I figured this was the best possible way to balance the MC for maximum effectiveness at this soul level. You can add me if you still don't trust the capability of this build :) I don't normally play on my "astrichthyes" account because it has a bunch of failed builds i've yet to fix, so message me on this one: astrichthyes2
I'll add you and we can duke it out :)
Sure thing man, I have NA version, you? Im sure you will rock my house, but not because of your build but because of skill. Well and lagg, i seem to get the worst from it like frontal bsses.
Another thing, you mention warding as a threat of some kind but it isnt. It is very rare and only noobs use it or people that dont have sc on. It is no problem really.
Yes NR will be great too after LW is gone, but since you are so familiar with the moveset, take out blessed GAxe+5 with a 548 AR. It will be better than unbuffed cleaver. Actually anything will be as good or better than unbuffed MC.
Im too working on 2 builds atm, will tell you how they turn out.
the blessed GrAxe doesnt have 548 AR with only 30 faith :P With 50, it will, but not here. it's only about 515-520. As for doing more damage, it really just depends on the foe. Against a faith build, the MC will equal or outdamage it.
Have you checked my builds? all of my builds are 40vit (except for faith which I didnt post cuz hag posted his and mine is almost identical except mine has 14int), trust me on this one you dont wanna go below that number, I'm 100% sure no matter how good you are anything below 40vit is suicide against experienced players, guaranteed; actually 40vit is already dangerous. Well that's my opinion at least. Btw you think the build will still be as strong with 24 faith and 26 strength? I really wanna riposte… it's my best defense against stunlocks and poles.
I agree with 40 vit being minimum and 45 playing a bit safer. As for riposte, know that you have enough time to 2 hand the MC after parrying and then do the riposte stil in the riposte window.
With 24 faith and 26 str you will be weaker during LW but stronger after its off than with 30 faith and 20.
I've tried ripostes with 2 hands and it doesnt work. It has only ever resulted in a direct hit when i tried it, which doesn't do near as much damage :/ As for upping strength and lowering faith, that is an option worth considering. You will probably gain more AR from dex, but you wont be able to riposte with the MC. Not only that, LW builds aren't typically designed for ripostes because they don't scale as well as CW builds. It really depends on how you want to play though. I am used to using the 1 handed moveset of the MC to get me out of tight spots where i need to rebuff or heal, not for offensive purposes (too slow and predictable). As for the whole vitality issue, this is a hybrid and will never have as much vitality as a build dedicated to one attack stat. This is a lot like a BBS build with regard to how the stats are distributed (sacrificing vitality for attack power), but I'm not sure which stats you'd take from if you wanted 45 vit. you gain about 3 AR/point from faith between 25 and 30, 3 AR/point from mag, and 2-5 AR/point from dex, so choose wisely. You could also reduce strength to 18, but you lose the ability to riposte with NR (which is necessary against grass-munching vitality build users). Personally, 40 is plenty for my play style. Playing with less vitality can also make you a much better player as well because you learn not to get hit.
EDIT: 2-handed ripostes do work; lowering strength from 20 to 19 results in a loss of 10 AR, so it's not recommended.