And Severence, Century is right about diminishing returns. While you may be right about favoring one stat below 40…that won't work in terms of spell damage. 40/20 is like having a 30/30 Pushed ToB. You need AT LEAST 40/40 for a Pushed ToB to work in PvP, just as you need at least 40 Magic for an ICat to work.

Sorry, but speaking as a guy who screws around with quality builds a lot, that is just not true.

And severance, you actually do gain less damage the farther you raise the stats. That's a fact. 30/30 gives you better damage on spells because the lower the level, the better returns per level. For example, before 30, A crushing +5 weapon will gain 5 AR per point. After 30, the gains drop. This holds true for EVERY damage stat. It is NOT misinformation. You say it has not been explained, this just proves you do not understand the concept of diminishing returns. At a certain point, every damage stat begins to have less effect. There is no grand conspiracy. These are facts.

if someone from eurversion helps me dlvl..i can correr atleast 6 points from int..and put 2 on faith so i can use ToB….and the other 4 in vit so i get 40 vit atleast…

what should i do? start from 0 or try to correct???

C rating + C rating = A rating

So if you have 40C/40C, it will match 40A.

Once you're over 40 diminishing returns kick in, so instead of getting 4 damage per stat point you get 2. However, if you start increasing Faith instead (and it's below 40), you still get 4 damage per point.

Yes, I understand that C+C = A, but nowhere does it say either C has to be equal to one another before the point where you hit diminishing returns. It makes zero sense that 40 (C) + 20 (C) does not equal 30 (A). It seems like a lot of misinformation and the only reason it's said to keep the levels close is so people do not go over 40 in either stat. If you're playing a build that relies on casting spells and uses a Crescent prefix or another weapon that scales extremely well off the Magic stat, it makes a lot more sense to build up Magic as high as you can up to 40 before ever touching Faith beyond 18, especially when it's never even been explained why 30/30 is apparently better than 40/20.

And as far as diminishing returns goes, it's easy enough to see in something like Endurance, but how does Magic diminish when each point gives exactly the same listed spellpower from 1- 99? Is there a hidden % that's used when the game calculates exactly how much damage you'll do and 41 is where you start getting less per point? Or is all of this based off the assumption you're going for a level 120 build, and against another level 120 build you won't "need" more than 40 if you want an all around balanced PvP character?

When you make such a ridiculous post no one really feels like answering, which makes your question go unanswered for days. To be honest I feel you would not even understand what people explained to you by the way you type things.

I noticed that you changed the stats from magic 45 to 40, and vitality from 40 to 45?

I was thinking of increasing my endurance to 35 so I could uchi push combo effectively with duel moon katanas, and keeping vitality at 40 and magic at 40 for PVP 125. What do you think?

Ps: i use ring of magical sharpness/rat's ring and monk's head collar/kris blade(obvious) as boosters….moon katana plus 5…thinking on trying a moon great sword plus 5..if i dont like it i will not increase endurance…because I only use weapons double handed dont need more stamina for double wields or shield block…just rolling and small combos (2-3 attacks)…..

So if you have 40C/40C, it will match 40A.

Once you're over 40 diminishing returns kick in, so instead of getting 4 damage per stat point you get 2. However, if you start increasing Faith instead (and it's below 40), you still get 4 damage per point.

The ToB gives you powerful Magic with 100% MP if your Faith and Magic stats are the same.

I still don't really understand how this works. ToB has a C/C for Magic/Faith. What does having Magic/Faith near or at the same level actually do over just raising one of the stats higher than the other since both are a C for scaling? Is there some invisible modifier?

Since the Talisman of Beasts has a C/C rating in Magic and Faith, spell power scales with both stats. Spells will deal more damage when using a ToB with 30/30, as opposed to 40/20 or 20/40.

Why is this? You get scaling off of each stat, but what does having them "close" have to do with anything when you get a flat +dmg per point of Magic and per point of Faith? 30/30 SHOULD be exactly the same as 40/20 or 20/40.

iCat: 45 Magic/Any Faith = 610 Damage
ToB: 45 Magic/24 Faith = 548 Damage
ToB 45 Magic/30 Faith = 574 Damage
ToB 45 Magic/35 Faith = 588 Damage
ToB 45 Magic/40 Faith = 601 Damage
ToB 45 Magic/41 Faith = 603 Damage
ToB 45 Magic/42 Faith = 607 Damage
ToB 45 Magic/43 Faith = 610 Damage
ToB 45 Magic/44 Faith = 614 Damage

So where is the list that shows 35/34 doing more than 45/24, unless beyond 40 you're biting into diminishing returns (even though you're still gaining +100 spellpower per Magic…)?

maybe this is anoob way to use this build….but the results are good…specially in CQC

and im Soul Lev 82 hav i gone anywhere very wrong?

This build is already spread incredibly thin, so you can't really afford an extra stat anywhere.

One question: Nick1Nintendo, do you oppose raising dex to 16 for the lava bow? I'd really like suggestions on this, since this is the bow I use in PvE with my other two characters. Maybe put another way, is lava bow inferior to fire spray?

You can always switch out the ToB for the ICat after you cast SC (assuming your opponent gives you the chance), but it really comes down to playstyle. With only 30 Intelligence, the ICat leaves you with only 100 MP, eliminating Firestorm as an option and nearly HSA as well. The low MP also reduces the effectiveness of spell combos such as Fireball —> Ignite, though individual spells do significantly more damage.

Another option:

RH1: (Melee weapon)
RH2: Kris Blade
LH1: Talisman of Beasts
LH2: Insanity Catalyst

Use the ToB until your MP falls below 50%, then switch to the ICat. Your maximum MP will drop but you don't actually lose any. You'd go from 100/200 to 100/100. The obvious disadvantage to this is practicality. It's a very high-maintenance approach, and takes getting used to.

As for Stamina, that's a problem many people run into when going from 40 to 30 Endurance. All weapons are at their best with 40, but since this isn't always possible, you have to learn to conserve what stamina you have and make the most of it. That's really all I can tell you. Practice makes perfect.

Hope that answers everything ^_^

Been leveling my SS build like yours for a while now…up into 105-110 level still have vit only around 30 and magic around 35. I have noticed I do get lucky and win some invaders/duels, but still get owned in red duels probably cuz my vitality is still so low. Right now I am duel wielding moon uchis +5 and occasionally will swap out right handed uchi with moon scythe +5 along with kris +5 and ToB. After casting second chance before invading or a duel, is it worth swapping to the iCat for extra magic damage at all? Or should I just stick with ToB for now until I go higher above SL 125? I have noticed that the iCat does sign more damage at this level than ToB thats why i ask. Also I love the versatility of having magic available like HSA, Soul Ray, fireball, etc…but i still love to melee alot to with duel uchis or war scythe but have noticed that my stamina runs out pretty quickly before inflicting any real damage with it only at 30. Have any suggestions on how to improve? Thanks again!

I wasn't aware that 40 VIT was considered minimum for SL 120; that clears up some other ideas I had for other builds.

One reason I wanted to use Northern Regalia is I like having the option of different kinds of weapons and I like the non-stat scaled damage on it. True, I could just use Dragon weapons, which in some ways are more effective but I plan on using them as well. Using a shield cost 2 point over what strength would normally be but I guess it's not too important; it seems few people use them. Also my first character used a bastard sword extensively, so I figured they would share the same moveset.

So I take out 4 points out of strength, leaving it at 18. Now where does go? Vitality? More HP is always nice but I'm quite used to having low HP. Magic? Not a huge damage increase from 40 to 44 as I understand it. Intelligence? More MP is kind of a joke. I could remove the 3 from DEX as well. For me, the positives outweigh the negatives.

My builds are usually never optimized as that's not my train of thought. When I get into a game, the best builds out there have usually been made and copied to all hell. If I made a dual katana DEX build, most people know exactly what I am and how to fight me.

Sorry for the long reply but in short, I just like to be a bit different and wanted to know if this variation would be viable.

Am relatively new to demons souls, enjoying having some guidance as to what to invest in stats wise etc as there is a huge amount to explore in this game, way up near the top you gave a few pointers on where to go, what to do first, and I was wondering if you would have any suggestions once you have done those areas as to where next?
Cheers for all the advise.

What you suggest may seem the easy way to do more things but I strongly recommend against it. 18 str is pretty much non negotiable, if you are that attached to that shield I recommend you try the steel shield instead (Almost same guard break reduction and fire defense but has 18 as req). The White bow is largely useless and the increase in damage is not worth wasting stats. Because they are bows having a lot of damage is not really necessary since you would be REALLY far away from enemies. If you are not that far away so you need more damage then you use a spell…

Also, one handing the north regalia is basically useless because it has the same moveset, just slower.

Finally, NEVER drop vit from 40 in any build destined for 120 range PvP or higher…In fact, never let it drop unless you are making a SL 40 or lower guy. While I personally recommend 45 as the bare minimum, some people think 40 is still manageable.

I crave more versatility in my characters so I'm not constantly building new ones (trust me, I'm an alt-aholic lol) so I came with this.

VIT: 40
INT: 30
END: 30
STR: 22
DEX: 16
MAG: 40
FTH: 18
LCK: 7

Final Soul Level: 123

I traded out 5 magic for an increase in STR and DEX so I can now use Northern Regalia one-handed, the White Bow (better and easier to obtain than a +10 compound longbow), the Phosphorescent Pole for PvE, Purple Flame Shield…. The list goes on. So I figured I'd see what your thoughts are on it and if it's worth it or not to give 5 magic or go 35 VIT and 45 MAG instead 40/40.

Regardless of my changes, the build looks very solid and deserves yet another +1.
BTW if you see any weird formatting or spelling, I apologize as I am on my iPod. ^_^

So, I'll rephrase that to "I mostly agree with doom" ^_^

And Eternal Warrior's Ring IS crap, really…I always use Clever Rat's Ring. I only suggested it because some people think of Hyper Mode as cheap.

However, this build simply cannot keep up with the damage output Dex and Str builds have, the regeneration and turtling capabilities of faith builds or the sheer HP of NR builds. Even stuff like LW MC and BBS outshine it because they are more specialized (and OHKO this while surviving much more). I would recommend this only to experienced players who can already handle themselves in battle…or people who want to abuse Firestorm and Warding for easy wins.