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I have changed the layout of the character tendency page. I think it looks a little cleaner without the information trapped in a tab view. If no one seriously objects to this change, I'll go ahead and do the same thing to the world tendency page tonight.
Not sure if I'm right, but apparently killing a boss with the host as a blue doesn't actually raise character tendency.
I have tested this extensively, and it is certainly false. Killing a boss as a blue phantom does not move character tendency. Killing BPs is the only way to go white. Other than killing bosses in your own world of course.
What about Death Cloud? The wiki and European Guide (That came with the EU version) say that killing a BP with Poison Cloud won't change the Tendency. What about Death Cloud?
I have been unable to change character tendency towards black with Miralda, Satsuki and Old King Doran regardless of what method I try, even if I attack first.
Soulsucker, Poison Cloud, Death Cloud and falling (environmental deaths) should prevent any CT change when killing any NPC, Body or BP. Good to know if you want to kill the named NPC's for WT shift only.
My tested CT list:
Crestfallen Warrior (-2), Acolyte of God (male) (-2), Worshipper of God (female) (-3), Disciple of God (-2), Saint Urbain (-2), Freke's Apprentice (-2), Sage Freke (-1.5), Yuria (-1.5), Stockpile Thomas (-3), Blacksmith Boldwin (-3), Blacksmith Ed (-3), Patches (-1), Dregling Merchant (-2), Filthy Man (-3), Once Royal Mistress (-3), Graverobber Blige (-2), Filthy Woman (-1), Old King Doran (0), Body Form Executioner Miralda (0), Body Form Scirvir the Wanderer (-2), Blue Phantom Lord Rydell (-2), Body Form Satsuki (0), Body Form Selen Vinland (-2), Biorr (-2), Ostrava (-2) / BP Ostrava (0), Garl (0) / BP Garl (0), Yurt (0), Mephistopheles (0), Maiden in Black (0)
| CT | Soul | Body | CT Bonus | (WT Bonus) |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| PW | 790 | 548 | +20% | (+20%) |
| -1 | 421 | 383 | +10% | (+0%) |
| -2 | 724 | 548 | +10% | (+20%) |
| -3 | - | - | +0% | - |
| -4 | 658 | 548 | +0% | (+20%) |
| -5 | - | - | +0% | (+20%) |
| -6 | 658 | 548 | +0% | (+20%) |
| -8 | 658 | 548 | +0% | (+20%) |
| PB | 658 | 548 | +0% | (+20%) |
| WT | Soul | Body | WT Bonus |
|---|---|---|---|
| pwwt | 229 | 191 | +20% |
| -1 | 210 | 191 | +10% |
| -2 | 191 | 191 | +0% |
Numbers were the same for world 1 and world 4.
Will do some more tests with PWCT in PBWT etc.
I haven't seen any information I was hoping for on any site regarding the effects of using friend's ring as a blue phantom vs/what current character tendency in soul form is.
Does blue and black phantoms stack with soul form outside of being one of these two?
To get friends ring, must be pure white char at time.
However, to effectivelyi use friends when being a blue, do you have to maintain pure white char tendency?
Any feedback is appreciated!
The ohter question pertains to foe's ring.
If invading, and character tendency for example is pure white. Because a black phantom's damage increases when is more black than towards white, would foe's ring work at all if you were not pure black charact tendency? This being after attaining the foe's ring, but using it as the invader's of hosts world.
I tried invading once or twice, but mainly host worlds.
When being a BP I felt the damage I did withi my weapno was extremely weak. I had pure white char tendency, hence am thinking it is the opposite of friend's ring.
In general though, since I know in body form, while enemies and invaders are not a strong there is no increase in power, by same token, as invader, if the host's world tendency is pure white, my weapon's damage will not be as strong as if world was pure black. However, am I even weaker as an invader when I have Ct towards white than black?
I may be wrong about some of these, but this is what I know and assume:
I'm not sure if the damage increase numbers for PvP are the same as for PvE.
If testing has not been done on this (referring to the assumed parts) I could check it out when PSN is back up, I believe you're correct but I would like to know for sure sure, or at least one sure.
It's probably worth noting that I just killed BP Satsuki and saw no change in character tendency (verified with Northern Regalia), in NG+. I suspect several of the BP NPCs listed on this page don't actually affect character tendency, or my character would be pure white right now (started in neutral AFAIK, killed all five black phantoms in NG, but only ended up with +2 CT.
Further notes: I missed the bits about not getting CT changes for poison cloud kills (should probably be noted in the strategies for each NPC), but that doesn't apply to my Satsuki kill as mentioned above. The first time I killed BP Satsuki, it was using fireballs and soul remains, CT results uncertain. The second time I used a technique I found on youtube where you try to get him stuck rolling into a rock, which definitely did not change my CT even though it was strictly a melee battle. The 3rd time, I used a couple of homing soul arrow spells to take him out and my character tendency definitely changed in that particular instance.
I think most of your information is dead on.
Hnowever, when it comes to PBCT as a black phantom, within either neutral, white, black, pure world tendencies of host, the invader doesn't decrease in health.
Many players I'v eduled with only 50 vit, wouldn't be able to take as many hits as they do.
They also mentioned, as I've seen as well when invading, that there is no effect on HP.
What there is an effect on is when you are an invader, and have pure white char tend for example, you are definitely weaker!
The complex system on character tendency of DS is very complex. While I wouldn't say sophisticatd, it has yet to be clarified by the game's makers.
I feel it would be an essential aspect for new players, and exp in understanding this critieria so it would help alleviate the whole "being in soul form as an invader makes you overall weaker against a body form.
The reasons I disagree is that aside from someone with a SL 140 fighting a Sl 120 invader(most cases I stay with !30 as host) defense, physical goes up and have slight advantage in that area over the invader.
That being siad, foe's ring gives a huge increase stacked with spells(light, curse) as well as unbuffed(faith builds) with an already slight advantage in dishing out damage vs host.
hosts with faith builds are at a disadvantage. My reasoning behind this:
Soul form=less damage taken=refills HP bar faster=stacking with regen ring, blessed weapnos nad adjudicator.
The toughest builds quite honestly I face as hosts are faith.
Phantom range using Great Axes when they already can kill someone in three hits(even blessed form)
Many players including myself at times forget the advantages a invader(skilled one) has.
I stress the term skilled due to the fact that two players who have no exp for example, one in body the other soul would lmost likely end up with the host winning. This is based on having higher HP nothing more or less.
With the shift in the meta game to using pushlocks, cursed kilij's,l estocs, etc..vitality basically means nothing.
Whether host has 50 or 99, fast weapons kill regardless in PVP in a few shots.
In any game most players logically aim for the best resources game provides.
While alot claim that being an invader takes guts, I feel in reality a host(again when talking about skilled vs skilled player pe se) has the real disadvantage.
Just my opinion along with some facts the game possesses.
Thanks:)
hi, i hope this question doesn't sound stupid… i couldn't find anything about this matter so i'm posting it here.
i was invading some guy the other day but i couldn't find him, so i left his world with the white eyestone. does this make my character tendency go towards black? hope there is someone who knows that…
No, it doesn't.
DSWiki Admin, Site Administrator,
Demon's Souls EU Strategy Guide Author, Namco Bandai Community Team Member;
That guy with the Kilij in all those Tournaments.
(account deleted) 18 Apr 2011 01:09
For anyone who claims that host being in PWWT has an increase in damage or invader(human controlled PVP) against a host in PWWT is weaker, look at the chart above!!!
This should be posted on all DS forums.
There are myths about how a host is weak, unskilled and should always keep it NWT for the invader to be of the same strength as host.
BS!!!!!!! The above calculations clearly go against everyone of your theory.
If you are trying to manipulate newbies into believing your theory so you have a clear advantage over a host, think again.
This game was NEVER meant to be a strong PVP one.
Who ever started that theory that hosts are stronger because of more health, that was not deemed back than as much a myth as is now.'
NO one knew better. We went by a host vs. invader, not counting weapons, damage outpuot, skills,etc..
HP these days you can lose in two shots with a buffed curse weapon by either host or invader.
Please, if someone sees this who is part of forums or sites do mention this.
Thank you for the person who put together this chart!!!!
(account deleted), 18 Apr 2011 01:09
sorry for double post.
Black BP invaders get no change in HP in hosts PWWT. What they do get, is strong damage output as soon as that hosts world goes below neutral.
Whereas, a blue which is common unfortunately to see in a PWWT waiting for BP's even when they deem it "fair duels" gives blue the obvious huuuge advantage stacked with friends', CT only is equal when two phantoms()red, blue) which when game was developed no one ever thought there would be such thing as "fair duels" in an host's world between phantoms!!!!!
I see too many times top players, or those who play as phatoms, claim that hosts have a big advantage when in PWWT.
Anyone who says that, back it up.
This fella above did a great job and I thank you for clearing much up.
The one thing though is BPs gain neither increase or decrease in health.
That's the difference in environmental and human controlled "enemies"
However, the one in soul form which is the phantom(human controlled) who invades has a ridicolous advantage offensively against any host who would consider going below Neutral world tendency.
In fact, what needs to be tested is whether the phantom has an increase in damage starting anywhere below pure white!!!
Soul form=stronger damage PVP and PVE.
Why do those who claim this absurd irrational thought about hosts have to manipulate the general DS population from thinking this.
Wiki, I love ya, and alot of people ojn forums, I respect. They are skilled players, and they are ones that for most play fair.
Check their posts about host in PWWT and you will see many of their understanding of a host bieng in PWWT afffects is completely off!
Thanks,
The No change section says that CT will not be affected if spells like Poison Cloud and Death Cloud are used exclusively. I use these spells to "soften up" (cheese) BP NPCs before finishing them with an arrow. I messed up with Rydell so that the poison/plague killed him a few seconds after the shot. I killed all 5 named BPs, starting from PBCT, and the Northern Regalia bonus indicates -1 CT.
Anyone. Bueller…bueller. Can someone, preferably those who are forum member, claiming how hosts who have PWCT have advantages aside from HP(which really makes no diff between a 50 vit host, vs. 50 vit invader due to buffs like curse, and more damgae backstabs, critical hits, and spells that are stronger in soul form, hence phantom over the host.
I'm a bit frustrated to say the very least, that while the PVP as a whole, has done a good job in making the game more of dueling, rather than jumping, I've yet to see any kind of proof into the trickle down theory turned into fake facts by many experienced players that claim world tendency has an impact on damage a host deals.
A host does not stack with CT, nor WT.
The invader DOES NOT lose HP regardless of world tendencies. THis is why THEY ARE NOT CONSIDERED PART OF HOST ENVIRONMENT>
only time a host should have NWT-blue vs. red/black.
WHy is it there is no calculations regarding this!!!!
A host is at a huge disadvantage defensively and offensively especially if it goes anywhere below NWT.
A phantom with PBCT wearing foe's ring does for example can still do over 1000 iun damage if they backstab a host, while a host within a NWT does less than 800!!!!!
Explain for those people who think there's such thinkgs as LOLOHKO's host do(how's that possible when they have less damage to F'in begin with huh!!!!!!!)
ohko"S i'VE BeeN VICTIM TO AGAINST AN INVADER IN MY pwwt, by Homing sould F'in arrows. All five hit, goodnight host.
A host the developers never ever ever ever ever discussed has advantages based on their world tendencies.
Stop the lies, stop the BS forum members. BTW-Most forum members are NOT the ones who are saying this crap. But I know the ones who are have manipulated a godo majority of players ranging from exp to the non-expereinced ones. Sickening…Sickening…Did I mention Sickening..
Host should always have PWWT to compete realistically against a skilled BP.
Host do minute damage if they lower it, while something called the foe's ring, stacks with an invaders CT, giving them an extra F'in, freaking, FUC__ boost aroost to their already 20% damage.
Sorry by the way, I'm just extremely upset. I love this game, and it's not just the jumpers ruinign it. IT's some players claiming crap that they want others to beileve!!
BTW-Killing any Black BP's such as Miralda, Scivir,etc..WILL NEVER change one's CT. The only time and ONLY time you get a decrease in your World Tendency towards black, is when killing any of the five NPC BP in a pure white world(when the nPC is in body form)
The other way to lower your WT, is killing old king Doran. I believe it goes down -1,-2 .
If using PC for 90-95% on one of the 5 BP's when they are in SOul form hence, pure black world, the only time you DO NOT get an increase in yoru world tendency, is if you finish them using PC, push them off a cliff such you can to Scirvir in 2-2, or if Miralda falls down the stairs.
Any other time, killing the BP's increasing CT by +1.
Killing Old Doran in wiki said(at least used to) that CT is effected. It is in no way true!! Your WT as I mentioned is however.
That's all. Young one, you have a good understanding of this game. As I asked and I hope very kindly:) Please, tell a few of these forum members to STFU in spreading lies about hosts being stronger in their pure white worlds. Nonsense. Phantom vs. Phantom should be NWT.
I can not believe the way these manipulatinos have trickled down from the exp to non-exp players.
The developers never ever ever ever ever explained how a host world Tendency on a invader with pbct, hurts them if it is pure white.
What kills a host is when they shift there tendency to pure black world.
That' is a phantoms wet dream.
The black phantom never loses HP in a pure white world of host, hence there' sno reason to believe a host becomes stronger.
WHile a blue phantom has hyper type damage in a host pure white world against a black, the same then goes for a black in a pure black world.
Only only only only only time world tendency of host should go anywhere near the dangers of NWT and below.
Soul form=stacking with damage. Even a black phantom with neutral, or pure white character tendency, while not twice as strong as they are with pure black, they nevertheless are stronger being in soul form than a host will ever be hit per hit, spell per spell,etc..
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