IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

Summary:

this should be ... interesting ...

IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

Stooge 09 Mar 2010 00:39

Someone asked me today about the policy on discussing exploits. I don't know how to address this, because the game has two components.

I have always taken the stance that if a person wants to "cheat" in a single player game then let them. It is their game. I don't want someone to tell me the best way to eat a damn cheeseburger and then be ridiculed if I choose to eat it another way. My damn cheeseburger; I will eat it however I like.

THIS damn game, however, leaves me in a conundrum. It has online & offline components.

Right now this is my stance. Since it is difficult for me to ascertain if an exploit gives someone an advantage in PVP then it is prohibited. I will not allow people to come up with ways to ruin another player's gaming experience. That is wrong. If someone mentions that they cheat in solo mode, or that they cheat in other single player games, or in any games, it is prohibited for someone else to belittle them or ridicule them for how they play. Telling someone they are a loser, or they can't hack it, or whatever falls under personal attacks. Even if they are, even if it is true, polite society does not allow for this type of behavior. Just report them and let the moderators deal with the situation.

This is not in the rules section yet, because it requires discussion from everyone. I want input from as many people as possible on this. I do not want us to get the wrong reputation in the community.

If there are certain tricks that don't give advantages in PVP then let's hear them out without saying how to do them.

Let's be civil about this, everyone…

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Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

StefanieTN 09 Mar 2010 19:26

Well, the only way to "cheat" is to exploit a glitch in the game itself or in the way the PS3 console works, so I suppose we would have to define "exploit" first. Generally, if you perform an action that was clearly not intended as part of the game play, then you're exploiting the system. There's no way to discuss this without identifying the exploits, but I'll avoid the details on how to do them. You might not agree with my categorizations, but this is how I see them.

What is an exploit:

1) In the three Asian versions (pre-patch), using the soul duplication glitch is an exploit, but on its own, it doesn't really hurt other players, because you still have to be within their ranges. Some players consider this blatant cheating, while others consider it nothing more than accelerated farming, but either way, it's definitely an exploit.

2) In the three Asian versions (pre-patch), using the de-level glitch can ruin online play for honest players. I won't describe how, but I will say that it's he most harmful exploit of which I'm aware. In fact, it serves no other purpose than to provide an unfair advantage in PvP.

3) In any version, using the PS button to quit the game from the console instead of quitting from within the game's menu allows players to bypass the auto-save function. I won't describe them, but several cheats can be achieved by this method, some of which do hurt other players online.

What isn't an exploit:

1) In any version, trading/giving is not an exploit. If I give someone a Kris Knife +5 as a gift, that's within the spirit and design of the game.

2) In any version, using either of the two shortcuts in Shrine Of Storms (4-1) is not an exploit. Normal game mechanics are used to roll over the walls, so you're not cheating. You can argue whether they are design flaws or things that were intentionally put there for us to find, but either way, they aren't exploits.

3) In any version, camping (waiting at spawn points for Blue or Black Phantoms) is not an exploit. Even allowing your friend to enter your game as a Black Phantom, so that he can ambush Blue Phantoms that you summon is a normal part of the game. It's extremely evil, but it's not cheating.

4) In any version, honest de-leveling (by jumping off of a cliff on purpose as a Black Phantom, or by letting False King, Mephistopheles, or a summoned friend repeatedly use Soulsucker on you) is not an exploit.

5) In any version, regular farming is not an exploit.

What's debatable:

1) In any version, simply reloading your profile in the middle of a game (mainly, for the Crow and Garl Vinland scenarios) could be considered an exploit or a normal function of the Load option in the menu. I'm still not sure what I think about this practice.

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

limeblue 24 Mar 2010 15:29

I think that with the nature of the wiki format, the most responsible thing to do is to present any and all exploits as you would with any other game-related information, along with etiquette notes discouraging their use in online multiplayer. As far as forum discussions go, I am fine with the idea of censoring people who would like to gloat about pvp victories gained by cheating, but I am not comfortable with the idea of censoring anybody interested in talking about exploits, including how to do them.

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

soulcrusher65 09 Mar 2010 01:44

I agree I have used exploits on games before and when people called me a cheater I just shrugged it off and said I'll play how I want to. Also I agree that cheating when playing with another person you shouldn't use exploits unless they let you.

One question though… We can still make fun of ourselves right? I've called myself a loser on these forums more than once and I'd like to continue to do so:)

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

Ilkar 09 Mar 2010 20:31

Good, I was hoping something like this would come up. Essentially this is a perfect reflection of my own stance.
I did mention to a poster before that I wouldn't give any advice on exploits or duplication glitches/duping in the interests of not ruining people's potential enjoyment of the game, and it heartens me to see some like minded people on here. ^^

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Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

Ojimaru 10 Mar 2010 07:50

Speaking of exploits, just wanted to be sure: Does the Bow-enchant glitch still work in the US version? I've tried it recently and it didn't work for me in the AS version.

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

StefanieTN 10 Mar 2010 14:51

I'll test it when I get home, with both the Asian and American discs. I rarely use bows or enchant weapons, but I thought it still worked. If it does still work, I would not consider that to be cheating or exploiting, even though it probably is a glitch.

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

StefanieTN 15 Mar 2010 19:24

I tried it in both versions and couldn't get it to work. I didn't realize that it was covered in one of the patches.

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

HenryFonda 14 Mar 2010 18:18

What are ya's opinion about duping? Personally I throw up everytime I see a thread that mentions the word. It exploits the in-game save which I think is a complete low. I spent almost 2 days backtracking in 5-3 in PBWT farming the shamans for chunks and pure. I max out shards and old spice every 2 hrs. The only thing I got out of it was 14 chunks and 2 pure. Bladestones were no different either. Earn your trophies and pvp weapons.

This sounds like a rant and it probably is but I just wanna get it out there. Also, kudos to those who took time to get their stuff.

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Riveting tale, chap

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

StefanieTN 15 Mar 2010 19:30

That's one of the issues I referred to in my third point of "What is an exploit" above. I just didn't want to specifically mention any of the exploits that can be done that way. I don't know if there's a way for a game to use auto-save and not be susceptible to that type of exploit, given the way the PS3 works.

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

HenryFonda 15 Mar 2010 21:56

I wanted to go into the specifics because this type of exploit really shines in forums. My question was how lenitive this forum was on duping. Like i said, I really despise any type exploit that gives the user a significant gain.

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Riveting tale, chap

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

limeblue 25 Mar 2010 14:28

I actually think duping is one of the more innocuous exploits. All it does is speed up a process to get a trophy. That doesn't meaningfully affect anyone else's playing experience. Even if you get invaded by someone who dupes, and their grand scheme revolves around a particular item that they duped, there isn't really much difference between getting invaded, and getting invaded a day or two later when they would have been able to farm up the materials.

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

Ilkar 14 Mar 2010 18:38

Any news on the bow glitch? Hopefully it still works, and I can't get on my PS3 to test it.

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DSWiki Admin, Site Administrator,
Demon's Souls EU Strategy Guide Author, Namco Bandai Community Team Member;
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Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

HenryFonda 14 Mar 2010 20:00

The bow glitch didn't work for me(US version). I tried it with light and curse weapon but the damage was the same. Also tried it with white stuff and turpentine.

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Riveting tale, chap

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

Zakkia 14 Mar 2010 20:22

Yea i think they fixed the glitch, sticky white stuff didnt work for me either which i think is good but i didnt use it anyway.

Re: IMPORTANT --- Discussions on Exploits

Ilkar 14 Mar 2010 20:10

Damn…that sucks. I'll try it myself later to check.

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DSWiki Admin, Site Administrator,
Demon's Souls EU Strategy Guide Author, Namco Bandai Community Team Member;
That guy with the Kilij in all those Tournaments.