Do you like 120?

Do you like 120?

Rekatan 01 Apr 2010 22:43

I'm curious if players like the current pvp "sweet spot" that's developed, or if they'd like it a little higher. Also do you think it's something that will naturally rise as the average player's level increases? Or an arbitrary number that will stay where it's at due to so many players intentionally staying there.

IMO 120 is still a bit restrictive. I've found as I push past 200 that the diversity of builds I see from opponents has actually increased, and (in general) the skill level has as well. Players can afford to invest more heavily into a stat to specialize rather than being so focused on getting all of their bread and butter stats up to the bare minimums to be functional.

Re: Do you like 120?

aclayto3 01 Apr 2010 23:33

I would like to see it higher at like 200 as well. I don't understand why everyone is capping off at 120. I've had awsome battles at level 200. Im honestly curious about the same thing

Re: Do you like 120?

Rekatan 02 Apr 2010 00:18

yeh Ive found that generally the play is a lot more advanced.. I've had duels where between the two of us we landed 5 or 6 ripostes over the course of one duel. Ya just don't see that level of play too often in 120

Re: Do you like 120?

HenryFonda 02 Apr 2010 02:04

The 120-130 range is where alot of builds seem be at its best. Going to 200 would weaken certain builds.
For example, there wouldn't be a NR build. Vitality-gouge builds will find its way in all builds.

Curse weapon will start closing the gaps with Light weapon. The Blueblood Sword build will become weaker(not by alot). You start getting diminishing returns in almost every stat after 30.
Faith build will become very weak while Strength and Dexterity build will still go strong(it already is at 120 but will still shine with Curse weapon).

Who knows, maybe it will spark new builds where mixes of each congregate with one another.

---

Riveting tale, chap

Re: Do you like 120?

Rekatan 02 Apr 2010 13:25

Ya diminishing returns become unavoidable for most builds by SL 200 and thats why it encourages specialization. People see diminishing returns as this big bad boogie monster because they're so busy meeting all those mandatory stats… Even 50 vitality "gouging" is frowned on by some players while I personally consider 50 vitality and 40 endurance mandatory because the gains are still so high up to those breakpoints, and yet I still run 99 magic with good reason - diminishing returns or not, those points from 90-99 still has every bit of significance. If I'm trying to one shot a player with homing soul arrow or firestorm that may be just enough to tip the scale, whereas I'd otherwise had only taken them down to 5% at which point they can just munch and it was all for nothing. Even when I switch to my crescent killij or BBS, that 9 points still contributes damage (albeit less).

I think the entire metagame changes when you are no longer forced to cut every possible corner to meet your bare minimums, and while this will weaken a few of the more stat-efficient builds (since they'd no longer have the advantage of everyone else being starved to meet their basic requirements), the large majority will benefit and we'd probably even see a good number of branch offs as a result. In the end we'd be seeing a lot more balanced game where BBS, dual katanas, and the occasional str build are no longer eating everyone else due to sheer stat advantage.

Re: Do you like 120?

nesmar 02 Apr 2010 19:25

Will faith builds really be that much weaker? Strength builds with sticky white stuff do around the same damage as faith builds as far as I know. I'm mainly comparing Great Axe and Miridian Hammer since they can both use them and are popular for pvp. With curse weapon strength will do 80-110 more damage depending on weapon, but then you can't use warding. Of course higher level builds could throw more points into int, but keeping two buffs up will be hard.

Re: Do you like 120?

gymyrugby 02 Apr 2010 11:28

I have 154 slv and 177 , two characters , I will make one more today because I don't find no one to play , when I was 1-110 they was so many :(

Re: Do you like 120?

Rekatan 03 Apr 2010 00:59

*EDIT* wrong reply button

Last edited on 03 Apr 2010 00:59 by Rekatan Show more

Re: Do you like 120?

HenryFonda 02 Apr 2010 23:56

The weapon list people use won't change. Even at SL 720 people will still use the same weapons. SL 120 is the designated stopping point because there's no reason to further their stats for little health and damage increase.
This is how PVP is gonna be at SL 200:

• No Faith build(Every other build will still benefit from something else(curse/light weapon) while faith will get little damage increase.
• No DBS build
• No NR build
• Highly possible battlemage
• Everyone will be at 99 Vitality
• There will still be STR build
• There will still be DEX build
• There will still be BBS build

Nothing else will change besides the time it takes to level up.

---

Riveting tale, chap

Re: Do you like 120?

Nick1Nintendo 03 Apr 2010 00:03

Yeah, that about sums it up. However…

•No DBS build

Sigh…would have been so nice, too.

---

PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: Do you like 120?

Rekatan 03 Apr 2010 00:59

Who said anything about a different selection of weapons? The best weapons in a given category can't change regardless of SL so it wouldn't effect that one way or another. You're ignoring that there's plenty of free points from 120-200 for diversification or eeking some extra damage out of the existing build. It's a very linear way of thinking to assume that everyone would maximize their existing build with that 80 additional points rather than discovering new combinations - builds that previously stuck with light weapon/cursed weapon now digging into magic a bit, or vice versa pure caster builds having enough spare stats available to invest into some sort of battlemage. In many cases players would find that finding synergy between a couple different builds is more effective than staying "pure" in their current one, so we'd have hybrids where at 120 that's largely impossible.

Re: Do you like 120?

(account deleted) 03 Apr 2010 01:43

the blueblood sword would benefit sooo much from 80 extra sl points into luck. You don't even know how useful that would be. On the other hand, S rank weapons will be even better. The only weapons that get the shaft are DBS, and every other weapon that doesn't have an S in upgrade scale

Re: Do you like 120?

clickrush 03 Apr 2010 18:32

i think at sl 200 theres one build that kills everything else: high vitality mage with max stamina and access to the best crescent weapon combinations. i never tryed it but it seems build with the least counters and the most tactical variability.

Re: Do you like 120?

Nick1Nintendo 03 Apr 2010 18:55

Mage and Spellsword builds are very hit-and-miss with PvP. Yes, they have the greatest degree of versatality by far. There's no question about that. It's very difficult, however, to actually get spells to hit; roll-spammers can dodge any spell they fell like, or let it hit them mid-roll and take no damage. That puts common spells like Soul Ray, Fireball and Homing Soul Arrow at a major disadvantage. The only spell that can't be completely avoided is Firespray, but though you can score plenty of hits, there is no stagger; your opponent can heal while you're shooting them with no problem.

I think they would be good in higher levels, though; they could all have 40 Intelligence, which gives them 6 Spell Slots for plenty of combinations. They could also catch up to other builds in Vitality, which is where most Magic-based builds fall short.

---

PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: Do you like 120?

Rekatan 03 Apr 2010 22:07

When dueling other spellswords I find they don't properly play the class in the slightest.. They tend to play one role or the other at a time - very awkwardly transitioning between casting and melee. The trick that I've found that really ties it all together is to use everything in conjunction. Drop a homing soul arrow and then charge in with crestent killij swinging - often times the player will dodge out of the killij stunlock only to eat the arrows, or vice versa roll into a stunlock in an attempt to close the distance while dodging arrows. Or drop a firestorm just as you've finished up a stunlock to catch them attempting to roll away - oftentimes doing enough damage to pop their 2nd chance and potentially finish the duel if you land the next firestorm as well. Even just something as simple as dropping a cloud or homing soul arrow to buy time to munch can really turn an otherwise lost duel.

There's a lot of tricks available, I just think many players don't make full use of them.

Re: Do you like 120?

Nick1Nintendo 03 Apr 2010 22:17

Exactly. It's probably the hardest build to use effectively, in my opinion.

---

PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.