What is the most important PvP factor?

What is the most important PvP factor?

nelard 04 Apr 2010 05:27

I'm interested to know what people think: What is the most important PvP factor (other than skill)?

Here are some of the factors I expect people to come back with:
-Damage output: how much can you do in 1 blow?
-Health regeneration: the more you regenerate, the longer it takes to kill you
-Weapons that go through shields: you are unblockable
-Fast swinging weapons: you always hit first and can disrupt other people's attacks
-The abality to roll: dodging a strike/magic attack can mean 0 damage

In my opinion, it's stamina. If I can deplete your stamina before mine is gone, I get at least one free, unblocked hit to you. If that's with a flame weapon against a Brushwood shield or a magic weapon against a drak silver shield, that is huge. That means you are delivering maximum, unblocked damage in a single hit. From what I've seen PvP wise, if one person is depleting another's stamina first, consistantly, the other person goes on the defensive, and usually loses.

If anyone has been following my posts, they will see I'm a huge advocate of the tower shield +5, for it has the highest hitres. Match that with an eternal warrior's ring and armor with no stamina regneration penalty, and I am neigh unhittable. People can attack me with all their might and their stamina will be long gone long before mine. In PvP, I use that extra stamina to attack with the scraping spear, knowing I'm taking little damage to no damage in exchange for damaging their equipment.

The downside to a tower shield is the 60% damage reduction against magic. In that case, the second most important factor is the ablility to roll. That last strike, the one that puts your stamina to 0, I roll away from. That will 1. create distance between us and 2. you can't attack because you're stamina is gone. Thus, I have time to eat a grass and now all that damage you've done is gone, and my scraping spear's damage to your weapons/armor remains.

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

Nick1Nintendo 04 Apr 2010 14:18

Probably experience. But, putting that aside…I would say damage output, both how much damage you can inflict per strike and how manys strikes you can inflict. Interrupting heals is, for the most part, a pipe-dream, so you need to be able to kill your opponent all the way through without giving them a chance to recover.

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

LadyzPrince 04 Apr 2010 15:14

I agree well said

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

Rekatan 04 Apr 2010 19:12

I would say its a tie between raw damage output and your ability to execute the "advanced moves". BBS is a much less scary monster when you can reliably riposte it.

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

LadyzPrince 04 Apr 2010 19:39

I'm not trying to make it less scary. But rather letting others know it's weaknesses so that they know how to fix it and find solutions to make it better.BBS is a kickass build, I've won quite a lot with it however with the many people using this build, I've alrdy begun to make a build that can counter the BBS and many other builds such as the meat cleaver and spear users. Hopefully I will be able to post this build up soon. Still have to lv it up to the 120s and pvp more people to find what is and what is not helpful. This is the thrill in playing demon souls, finding and making new builds to beat the other. :) The builds currently posted are also badass.

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

Nick1Nintendo 04 Apr 2010 19:55

Lol there's very few new builds to be seen. Dual-katana, DBS and Polearm have been around since before serious PvP was thought of. The only builds I've seen introduced since the game came out are Great Axe and Blue Blood Sword. There are also a few Spellsword/ Magic Knights, but they're few and far between.

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

clickrush 04 Apr 2010 21:11

well besides great axe, dbs, dual-katana, polearm, bbs, there are quite a few viable weapon sets that are not at all mediocre:

meatcleaver, pure caster with 3 viable catalyst choices (tob, wooden, icat), kilij, baby's nail, secret dagger, fatal estoc, winged spear, knights sword, NR and some more….

demon's souls actually has a huge variety of viable weapon choices. its often not the weapon alone but also the weapon combinations that open up alot of possibilities.

its just that some of them are not "flavor of the month". there will always be weapons that are more common then others ofc. especialy flexible weapons like bbs and katanas will allways be seen often. but a kilij for example that deals a huge amount of damage with very low stamina cost and stuns faster than BBS isnt seen as often because its not that flexible. but if you combine it with a other weapon for certain situations and matchups, then its actually a huge force.

back to topic:

for me the factors are the following…

1. either maximum stamina or a huge manapool ->(everyone does that)
2. flexible set of weapons and spells ->(some builds lack flexibility as i experienced)
3. a proper balance between vitality and your dps stat(s) ->(everyone does that)
4. the skill to pull riposte/backstab, well timed rolls, well timed blocks, well timed attacks/spells off
5. enough brains and experience to play mindgames and dominate a fight

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

FancyNickers 04 Apr 2010 20:56

i would have to say damage first and stamina a close second. both are required for offence, which is the best defense. the reason i say damage first, is that if you can kill someone in one or two hits, you don't need stamina.
case in point, i was recently BP killing in 4-1 with my mage in hyper mode (lvl 130-ish, 42 magic) and i killed someone in one hit with soul ray. lol, i felt kinda bad… :P but even when i didn't kill them in one hit it was just a matter of spamming them with firespray. i really didn't use any stamina, until someone casted anti-magic field. then i diced away with the makoto, and before my stamina was gone i had won. :D i hate to think how much damage my mage could do in hyper mode if i hadn't spent so many points in vit, int, and end…

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by demons be driven

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

nelard 04 Apr 2010 21:35

Mages throw a monkey wrench into this concept because casting spells doesn't take up stamina, so there's no need for it, they need raw power.

I think the order of importance is: Stamina, ability to roll, swing speed, damage output

Here's a hypothetical questions
You have 2 weapons.
1 swings slow, uses 100 stamina and dishes out 1000 points of damage.
1 swings fast, uses 10 stamina and dishes out 100 points of damage
Which would you rather have? In the end, they both dish out the same amount damage/stamina used. I'd rather have the fast swinging weaker one.

Here is how most of my PvP's start:
They come running in with cursed dragon bone smasher/2 handed power house weapon. I put up my tower shield. They swing their stamina gone into my shield, where I take no damage and still have stamina left. I take 1 step forward, 3-4 swings of the baby's nails, they're plagued.

So I say stamina is most important because as people are wailing on my shield, depleting both our staminas, I'm getting a couple pokes in with a spear (I use scraping spear). The ability to roll is second most important because if I find they are still swinging and my stamina is almost gone, I used that last bit to roll backwards and out of range. If I can't roll, they'll still hit me. Next important is swing speed. If they have a slow swinging weapon, I'll move in with Makoto (which swings rather quick), hit them a few times before they can hit me. Again, when my stamina is almost gone, I use the last bit to roll backwards so it can refill.

Lastly is damage output. Because the above doesn't relly matter and the battle will last an hour is you're doing all this with claws.

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

FancyNickers 04 Apr 2010 22:51

you're absolutely right. it's all a big game of rock paper scissors. i love it for that.

so what would happen if they used the large sword of moonlight? you would have to abandon your shield tactic (it goes right through apparently, the Blind included), then rely on your stamina and a decent weapon. so you're pretty well covered. especially with a spear so you can poke em from behind the tower you're holding. :P and because you can roll a hyper mode mage would have a hell of a time hitting you.

if you're talking about a sword fight, you must also consider the reach of your weapon as well as speed. which is why the BBS is so godly. a kilij has no chance vs a BBS because the BBS has comparable speed but superior range. a two handed pole weapon can strike quickly with great range. so it outclasses other weapons of a similar reach. so in theory a low damage weapon with great range and speed with a lot of stamina could destroy any big sword-wielding foe. i've got a holy knight which uses a blessed claymore. completely useless in pvp, for those reasons. any spear, pole or quick sword will tear him apart. also health regen is irrelevant in pvp because (most) matches are so short.

so yeah, high stamina builds have more to work with for sure.

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by demons be driven

Re: What is the most important PvP factor?

nelard 04 Apr 2010 23:11

In the case of large sword of moonlight or blind, I take out the scraping spear and 2 hand makoto. I usually save the makoto for when all the gear is broken, but this in an exception.

2 handed makoto swings faster than LSoM, so I hit first and disrupt their attacks, and it has farther reach than blind (yet another important PvP factor, the reach of your weapon).

The build I have is very good PvP, my losses usually stem from: making a dumb move (like swapping my weapons out too early), or lag, getting hit/backstabbed when I'm not at the location anymore.

I disagree that most matches are short. Mine are rarely shorter than 5 min (unless bad lag occurs). I can imagine the short matches are the ones where 2 brutes run and swing at each other and whoever is luckier, ie weapon hits first, wins. That, to me, isn't playing the game.