PvP and A Duel

PvP and A Duel

CouchPotato 05 Apr 2010 01:59

Ok so i want to put my 2 cents down between the two.

Ill first say i finally got a character to 110 ish so i had some pvp action. I have played the game since it came out. Just every time i get a character to like level 80 i decide i dont like it and then make a new one. Or perhaps learn some new little trick that i didnt know of before.

Anyways In one night of trying some invading i have no idea how you veteran players enjoy it. lol

What to me is PvP.
I encountered about 80 percent of the time the old large axe curse weapon roll o dope. One dude that was THE ONLY THING HE DID. He was with a blue and well wow ganged up on me. So i ran into some skeletons in the shrine to try and recover. Lol the dude killed alllll the skeletons with the roll o dope move. So if it takes skill to use a weapon that can only kill with one move?

If it wasent that it was a blue blood sword light weapon. Or maybe combined with the morion blade.

Then there was the dual katana dude repeatedly trying to push me to do the old stun lock wail on the old attack button.

Ohh and i got tired of getting gang up on when i busted out the scraping spear by everyone, lol especially after everyone greeted one another and waited for everyone to cast this and that. I bust out scraping spear bam EVERYONE.

And the rest had the old meridian hammer.

So i say pvp. There is no actual real skill involved with these tactics. Its a game move set that pretty much, while yet it usually works, it takes no real actual skill to use. I bet like i have said before if your buddy came over, had never played demons souls before, and you showed him the old roll o dope move he too would be able to kill people. So an individual who has never even played the game could do exactly what the person who made the character build could do. So i ask where is the skill in that?

Yes a skilled player could most of the time dodge the move set and come out on top thinks like that tiny bit of lag make it impossible to dodge it every time. Then once down most of those players have the timing down so you cant always get back up by repeated roll o dope. Again does it work, yes. Does it take any skill no.

Now on to a duel. Well as such i have not seen any ACTUAL duels. I believe a duel would be more along the lines of two people who will not exploit any of these weaknesses of game mechanics.

Like if you get knocked down they will let you back up.
Ohh and i believe in no healing items. You can eat and get more magic but no healing. That way people would be able to use the damage over time spells and they actually mean something.
That way people would actually have to think about not getting hit rather than rushing in, ground pound, run away, heal, ground pound and rinse and repeat.

And no uber bazillion damage weapons. Yea neat you can demolish someones stamina with the old meridian hammer and then with the curse weapon destroy their health.

It just seems so un exciting when you invade a game and see 4 dudes One meridian hammer one blue blood sword one meat cleaver and one large axe dude.
Ohh and dont forget if you are beating one of them blam the other 3 come on in and finish you off.

I was invaded by a dude who actually tried something new. Did it work? Well no He was wearing vinland armor and the hands of god. Lol well he needed to get close to me and with the scraping spear/acid cloud build i am best at distance. Soo in the end he left when everything was broken. The difference. I actually felt bad about that. That person did something different. As opposed to all the freaking meat cleaver dudes who i break their weapons and armor. Then instead of killing them i let them heal and try everything they can to kill me. Only to keep poking them doing like 50 damage at a time. Just to make them know. Hey i figured you out, you cant kill me, and im not gonna kill you. So leave or lose a soul level and kill yourself. Dirty probably, but i honestly believe a meat cleaver weapon is a dirty over used weapon.

So now i have a new goal. Im going to make a hybrid build. I want this build to be able to deal with all these cheap game mechanics. I dont know what im gonna do. I know it will probably take a few tries but i will. Im just so tired of seeing the same old stagnant weapons that yes work but only because of some game mechanic that does so.

Sorry for the long post. Ohh i cant wait for the dude who says "Man your post is too long and boring, get a life."
With all the possibilities for builds in this game. Why does everyone do the same freaking thing and call it skill?

Re: PvP and A Duel

nelard 05 Apr 2010 16:29

I had a duel the other day in 3-3 that was a first and very honorable.

He was the BP and I walked through the fog gate. We bowed to each other and the fight began. I plagued him with baby's nails and tore him up with scraping spear. About 2-3 minutes in, he backed off, bowed again and turned and faced a wall with his back to me, allowing me to backstab him.

I've also fough not so honorable players. Ones in 4-1 or 1-4 who just sit there and wait to be invaded. We start by bowing and the fight begins. After it's clear that I'm going to win, they run to a blue soul sign and summon help. If you want a 1 on 1 fight and are going to lose, just take the loss. I think these people are lower on the food chain than cable yankers.

It sounds to me like you're trying to make a kill-all build, one that is not weak to any other build type. I've been working on one for a while and think I've finally got one. What's interesting is after reading clickrush's post I realized, it's made up of all utility weapons (this was the first time I've ever seen the term utility weapon).
-Tower Shield for low stamina lost per hit blocked.
-Baby's nails for plague to inflict continuous damage/reducing healing effects.
-Poison cloud for inflicting continuous damage/reducing healing effects from a distance.
-Firestorm for high damage output/knockback effect.
-Scraping spear for armor/weapon breaking.
-Makoto for fast swinging damage & bleeding.
-Dragon long sword+5 for fast swinging damage & weapon durability.

Whatever build someone throws at me, I have a counter for.
-Large sword/rolly polly/BBS builds: Block with shield, inflict plague, poke with spear until broken, slash with makoto, firestorm & poison cloud if opportunity arises
-Berserkers (mage or otherwise): keep distance. roll to avoid projectile attacks. poison with cloud. firestorm when in range (safer). slash with makoto when in range (riskier)
-LSoM/Blind: 2 hand makoto. Swings faster than LSoM and has greater reach than blind
-Scraping spear: scraping spear in 1 hand and get everything of their's and mine to 0. Plague, poison and bleed them. Firestorm if opportunity arises. 2 hand dragon sword (do towards the end of battle as a surprise, it will take several durability hits to break).

I have yet to have this build lose continuously to one specific build, I usually lose due to lag or a mistake. The key elemet to living is (and see my thread on what is the most important PvP factor): stamina management. Rolling away from your enemy with that last bar of stamina, rather than that last swing not killing them, leaving them with 1 health and you being unable to block, they retaliate on you.

There are really only 2 weaknesses to this build that I've come across so far: 1. weapons with high magic damage (BBS+light weapon). To counter that, roll instead of block until it wears out. 2. risposte. If people try to counter your strikes (or just spam L2), learn to time the scraping spear pokes & baby's nails strikes.

One thing I find with the high damage output people is they lack skill, so they try to end the battle as quickly as possible. I try to prolong it as much as possible, until the timing is right for me to move in with death. The longer the battle goes, the more likely these less skilled players are to make a mistake. I enjoy fighting people who are constantly swaping out BBS for MC for DPS for Katanas for Scraping spear. They offer an actual thought and skill induced battle.

Re: PvP and A Duel

EWGF 05 Apr 2010 06:20

Your points are somwhat valid, but some things are also very skewed.

1st off, a lot of people would argue that Scraping Spear/Acid Cloud isn't dueling, it's griefing. Your strategy is at large to hamper their weapons, and render their strategy useless. I personally don't mind this, but many would call you a total hypocrite (simply put, your idea of a valid and fair strategy is different then other people's).

2nd in a 1v1 duel there are no "cheap strategies". Most proper builds have the potential of putting you away very quickly. Everything from Crushing, to Dexterity, to BBS, to Faith, to Hybrid, to NR, to caster. Each weapon has an exploitable weakness, and an effective counter-strategy (from the ones you listed):

- BBS has difficulties with any weapon that has decent reach, Hyper Armor, and some kick to back it up (Poles, Katanas, Cleaver, Crescent Axe, Great Axe).
- Katanas are stuffed by shields, and at large, Warding.
- Great Axe/Cleaver are prone to faster jamming weapons (Spears/Katana/Poles/Asian Swords notably). Also many of their attacks are very weak to proper backstab fishing (the rolling AOE is very prone to rolling backstabs, making it suicide to whore this against many skilled opponents).
- Mirdan Hammer/Sais are the easiest weapon in the game to parry, and are somewhat prone to eating attacks with Hyper Armor (Cleaver/Great Axe).
- Most builds that rely on Curse Weapon can be brutalized by a Warding backup buff (in addition to Second Chance). I've also had great success running it as a pre-buff.

Basically DS is an elaborate game of paper/sicsors/rock, and there's no point of slamming one particular setup because it destroys your setup. Even after the matchup, skill still factors into it. You can beat an opponent who has a favorable matchup if you outplay them.

3rd, heals are valid in PvP. In higher levels of PvP play going for a badly timed heal is either pointless, or suicidal. Heals are punishable by backstabs, and knowing when to heal is a part of PvP. Even worse, you can eat a backstab, and give your opponent a free heal… which is awful.
Also you mentioned the damage-over-time spells do nothing because of heals… which is flat-out untrue (except for bleed which sucks). Poison and Plague cut the effectiveness of heals in half aside from Darkmoon, and Plague actually slows stamina recovery which is huge on it's own.

4th, when you're getting up from a knock down you've got plenty of invincibility frames to escape, so I don't see your gripe with opponents "not letting you get up". Like 95% of the time you can easily roll away unscathed after getting smacked to the ground. On the rare occasion you do eat another hit, I still dont see your point. They have a weapon that knocks you to the ground, that's a part of the game, and a part of the weapon they've chosen.
That's like your opponent saying saying "boy, I wish the guy using Scraping Spear would drop some of Ed's Grindstones for me… then I'd be totally cool with it". You see the hipocrisy in that? You've chosen Scraping Spear, they've chosen a weapon to knock you over. It's not in their agenda to let you get up, just like it's not in your plan to let them repair their gear during a fight.

I can understand your logic, but to be frank it's coming from player who is clearly new to PvP, and trying to beat high-powered builds with a more casual build. To be honest, yes, there is little skill involved in constantly roll-spamming GAxe, or mashing R1 with a Cursed Mirdan Hammer… but this sort of thing is easily beatable with a bit of experience, and a polished build.

Re: PvP and A Duel

babymim 05 Apr 2010 09:43

What's Hyper Armor? Good post EWGF. :)

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Re: PvP and A Duel

EWGF 05 Apr 2010 17:42

Hyper Armor = Uninterupted Swings.

Any attack where you can get hit while performing it and it will not stop your yuour attack (generally GAxe, with a couple GSword).

Re: PvP and A Duel

Nintendoblivion 07 Apr 2010 05:54

All good valid points except for on the knocked down and back up, a good magic user with about 50 some magic could back stab follow with Firestorm, works great except against magic tanks.

The reason average PvP lvl is 120 to avoid a perfect set-up, perfection leads to disaster or cheapness

ANY BUILD CAN KILL ANYONE, i found that in a fair PvP the winner know the stage well, can pull a cheap (but not too cheap) move, can quickly alter strategy if needed, only heals when necesary, and has the ability exploit the enemies weakness

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Re: PvP and A Duel

clickrush 05 Apr 2010 14:45

to put it in a more general way:

A) like in every game: spamming 1 move over and over creates a pattern, that is counterable. every move with a specific weapon has a weakness that can be countered by at least one or more moves and weapons.

B) this leads to the rock-paper-scissors apect: a good fighter includes more than one move into his style to prevent being countered and to give him more flexibility to counter his opponents moves. so you actually have a mixed bag of different rocks, papers and scissors. so switching weapons, spells, moves and general behaviour leads to a unpredictable style of fighting and is allways better than spamming one move. (this has been said before btw. Master Sun Tsu's "the art of war" has been written 3k years ago and can be used in every aspect of life that includes strategy/tactics)

C) you mentioned mc as a overused weapon. i think there are at least 9 damage weapons that are used commonly + there are some more that do their job as damage weapons equaly good in certain situations (read "B)") + there are quite a few weapons that have special abilites/upgrades for a more tactical approach.
(dbs, mc, poles(2), bbs, katanas(2), great axe, catalysts(3), nr and maybe more damage weapons are commonly used…)
(kilij, knights sword, winged spear and a few more damage weapons are underused but at the same level of effectives in certain situations/builds)
(fatal weapons, baby's nail, stormruler, morion blade, scrapping spear and mb 1-2 more utility weapons)

Re: PvP and A Duel

CouchPotato 06 Apr 2010 01:11

Well first off i wanted to say thankyou who responded. Too often message boards start with one post then digress into some kind of junior high contest of who is the most popular. So thanks for reading my post then when responding, while having a different opinion, still seeing that im not wrong. Or right for that matter.

Second i wanted to respond to the scraping spear. Cheap or not. I have found the only real benefit is the breaking of armor. I really never break the heavier weapons like axes n dragon bone smashers. So i guess it was my first build in response to all the same weapon types.

And as far as the not letting you get up. I do know you can roll out of it very easily. I guess i was saying using it as a tactic because thats all you got.

My comment about not being able to heal was i guess intended to let a higher variety of builds. One example. A bow and arrow. Say a player using stealth like an assassin. So say use cloud spells to weaken their health. More so to confuse your opponent. Make it hard for him to see you and hid yourself. When spotted then like ninja use a cloud spell to disappear. Then you could say snipe a person with a bow and arrow. Now if you can heal this build is really not a valid build. I guess it just opens more possibilities. I know it would never go over but still.
I do understand that healing is often the reason you die due to a fatal backstab.

Ok so yes i am new to real PvP. I always play online and have been invaded many times while playing.

Ok so Ill try to explain it the best i can.

Soo lets say the reason most people capped at 120 is because once you play the game enough you memorize the pattern. So it is no longer hard. Soo like a new game ++++++++++ while yes the enemies hit you hard you still know the pattern.. how to beat the bosses, what each enemy is going to do right?

So to me PvP is the same animal. With so many people doing the exact same thing it seems to me to be very similar to playing the pve game over and over and over again. Yes you know a meridian hammer can be parried, Yes you know a dude with a large weapon is going to do the roll o dope, or a blueblood sword light weapon. So it seems to me that is the same old thing over and over again. There is no real sense of accomplishment when you beat someone when its just the same old thing.

You use the rock, paper, scissors example. Well to me its always rock vs paper. No scissors.

It seems like everyone just went to wiki and picked a build to use one of the uber weapons and thats what they use down to the exact equipment and armor. No individual thought. None of their own spin on a character. So basically one dude say put light weapon on a blueblood sword. And destroyed someone. So that person went wow another blueblood sword build. Same exact way.
Or you get beat by some dude using say a dragon bone smasher. You then say wow good build howd you do it. Blam another DBS build. Same exact thing.

So here would be my examples.
A meat cleaver is pretty much a faith build. Most add curse weapon 3 magic slots. Why not say use sticky white stuff for your buff and then use your magic for say FIRESTORM. So some dude thinking ok use my tower shield block his hits and hit back. You rush in and then BAM FIRESTORM. Would it work i dont know. But i bet most people would think a faith build wouldnt use firestorm.

Or say a blueblood build. Using light weapon and homing soul arrow. Cast the soul arrow. They have to dodge it then that may open up an opportunity to get some free blueblood swings.

I guess what im trying to get at is everyone builds their character so specifically they think its not possible to use anything else.

Just because you have 15 magic why does that mean you can have firestorm in your magic spells. Yes you wont have the raw magic power to kill someone in one hit. However you will still have to respect that.

Or if you have low magic why cant you spam firespray while walking at the other player because you can walk n shoot. They will probably be trying to avoid your firespray so you can move in close for some other attack. Most people think that you have to have the monks wrappings, ring of sharpness and kris blade. No you can cast fire spray with 10 magic and the proper demons soul.

Will these tactics work? I have no idea. If implemented right probably.

Like i said with soooooo many different ways to build a character and weapons and tactics built into the game. Why is it that it is the same 5 weapons in different combination of buffs that are used?

So yes i probably have a "casual build" but i would rather beat a high powered build with it. Not a high powered build vs a high powered build.

Like ok this is the 56675th time i have faced a pair of dual katanas. Soo break out my shield and drain his stamina and attack. Rinse and repeat.

Or ok he has a great axe with with curse weapon. Soo roll attack coming. I need to roll and avoid till curse weapon wears off and then move in at attack.

Sounds like not so much skill as pattern memorization. Only in the sense that everyone does EXACTLY the same thing with that combination.

Sounds exactly like Ok so im fighting the tower knight sooo i have to run up the stairs kill archers then get behind tower knight hit legs back up when he jumps back …….. you know.

Im looking more for a world like Ok soo there is a meat cleaver guy. Yep there is the enchant weapon. Ohh ok here he comes ok hes gonna roll i better roll. WHAT THE?????? HE USE FIRESTORM INSTEAD OF THE ROLLING ATTACK. That dosent make sense, meat cleaver is a faith build. Why did he use firestorm.

Or ok here comes meridian hammer guy. Ok so gotta parry that and then attack. WHAT THE?????? He cast homing soul arrow. I have to dodge that but if i roll ill be at half stamina if he times this right hes gonna hit me with that hammer and i dont have enough stamina to take all the swings from his full stamina.

It just seems very anti climactic when you invade 4 different worlds with say 3 people in each. And all 4 worlds all 3 people using the same freaking thing.

Re: PvP and A Duel

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 01:41

This is a nice thread, and on a normal day I would reply with some long and ridiculously detailed post to let you know just how much I agree.

But I am too damn tired.

So, I'll just say that I agree, CouchPotato, but there's nothing to be done about it. I skimmed EWGF's post, and he has it spot-on. Maybe it doesn't take a whole lot of skill…but it does take some. And there is a weakness if you know how to take advantage of it. Of course, those weaknesses are often few and far between (There's a Polearm weakness? My ASS there is).

But…that's PvP. People find what works, cheap or not, and eventually the idea grows until it's universally accepted. You see it so much that people eventually are pressured into thinking it's ok. Which, by their new and modified opinion, it is. Give Scraping Spear and Acid Cloud a few months, tops. You'll see.

Well, look's like I went into a long post anyway ^_^ Had more energy than I thought I did.

Oh…maybe not. Night guys.

*Drops to the floor with a decisive thud*

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Re: PvP and A Duel

CouchPotato 06 Apr 2010 02:03

Well as of right now i can 100 percent say that scraping spear/acid cloud is NOT accepted yet.

I use it and wow either the person leaves, i get gang tackled by everyone, or someone just jumps off a cliff and kill them selves.

BUT ALWAYS ALWAYS hate spam.

Lol : ) and i love every minute of it.

Im thinking of making a dex build so i can actually do some damage with the scraping spear.

But first Im working on my hybrid build to see if it can address the "usual" builds.

Remember embrace the hate. All it means is that you have shown someone the world does not revolve around them!

Re: PvP and A Duel

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 02:08

If I was awake right now, I would quote: "Hate mail. The more you get, the better you are."

*Yawns*

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Re: PvP and A Duel

clickrush 06 Apr 2010 02:29

you made a nice post there but you miss the fact that (at least decent) players with a melee build allways have two weapon sets. i mostly win pvp fights when i switch weapons accordingly and change my behaviour.

also do not underestimate the huge variability of weapons that are used. iam kinda bored of the "there are only x weapons that are used" or "everytime i pvp the other uses x weapon". its 100% exageration. as i mentioned in a other thread: there are about 9+ commonly used and different damage weapons +there are a handfull of less used weapons that are on par with these +many utility weapons that are more or less commonly used.

as far as your build goes: i suggest you use a meat cleaver build. you get enough str to wield tower shield, a high dex for more damage with scrapping and a badass damage weapon to finish your opponent.

Re: PvP and A Duel

nesmar 06 Apr 2010 02:33

You have to understand that some people actually find power builds on their own. I've been using a faith build around blessed mirdan hammer since the game came out. It wasn't until recently that I found out that the hammer was considered OP. Do I have to change the way I play because of that? The answer is no.

Re: PvP and A Duel

CouchPotato 07 Apr 2010 01:10

Ok sooo ill try to explain my crazy thoughts as best i can.

I guess im not inherently complaining about this weapon or that weapon.
More how they are being used.

Ok so most PvP builds are built for one simple thing. Do the most damage in the shortest amount of time.
I fully understand that most people think that is common sense.

So it could be meat cleaver/curse blueblood/light homing soul arrow/insanity cat/ring of magical sharpness. Seems perfectly logical. So this is why most people use a combination of certain weapon types.

That is my gripe. Lol I know most people are thinking wow this guy is dumb.

Most people wanna win. And win every time. So by default since most PvP players want to win the default way to do it is to make sure you can out damage the other guy. Yes tactics play a part in it. Say you parry a meridian hammer and you get a full bar of stamina to wail on the opponent, YOU WANT THAT TO KILL HIM. Lol

I get it. I really do. It makes total sense to me why it is the way it is. Im just frustrated becasue of that.

I believe this is why most people hate a scraping spear/acid cloud build. It breaks the norm of that most damage formula. When i use the scraping spear on my build i do no real damage with it. Im banking on the fact that i will eventually break your weapons. Then i will move in for the kill. So im not actually trying to kill you per say just set you up to fail. I believe that is why people leave (by pushing the old ps button n log off) or kill themselves when they can do no damage.

Because it breaks the norm. If you have a meat cleaver and curse weapon vs a blueblood sword curse weapon you feel that at any time you have the ability to kill the other player. Yes you may have to avoid, dodge, heal, etc. BUT YOU STILL COULD WIN. Now if all your equipment is broken you have no spells YOU ARE COMPLETELY HELPLESS You leave because you have just lost the ability to win. That is why you think its cheap.

Like i have stated before most peoples builds are 1 focus.

Example. Meat cleaver with curse weapon. You are most likely a faith build. So yes you probably have backup blessed weapons. However if i break your meat cleaver n make it useless i have also done one other thing. The 3 magic slots you have for curse weapon are rendered useless as well. As you cant use that enchantment on a blessed weapon.

That is to me the problem.

Why couldnt you have used sticky white stuff for the buff? Then you could have say poison cloud, acid cloud, and soul ray. Now you options are more open. Say i bust out the scraping spear. Stop running at me and cast acid cloud at me. Spam poison cloud to keep me at bay. Shoot a souls ray at me. Just let me know that you dont have to be near me to be able to hurt me. Then possibly i will have to change my battle tactics n put away my scraping spear because i want you to come at me so i can block your attack n poke you with the spear. So by simply taking a buff that is less damage in one sense you have opened yourself up to more options.

Ok same thing with a pure mage opponent. Now your acid cloud blocks his line of sight to you and you can run away from his lock on. You can get away from him spamming fire spray and regroup.

Why not be crazy and have firestorm and wrath o god? Yea yea i get it. You wont be able to be uber damage with both. I bet after your opponent was firestormed they would never expect to then be hit with wrath o god. Yea you would only get one opportunity but heck take him up to the steps he conveniently cleared out in 4 - 1 fire storm him, he dodges puts him next to cliff then BAM wrath of god off the cliff. Cheap perhaps but i bet you never expected it.

Everyone is just so concerned about ok ok this stacks S with that stat and then C with that stat sooo i have to put max points in this stat. My idea put 5 less points in both and then use those 10 points to do something unexpected.

A meridian hammer wielder, morion blade, clever rats ring, with a ring of magical sharpness and 4 homing soul arrows. A dragon bone smasher guy that can spam fire spray. A blue blood swordsman with death cloud.

Last edited on 07 Apr 2010 01:15 by CouchPotato Show more

Re: PvP and A Duel

nelard 07 Apr 2010 03:54

You hit the nail on the head. When you break away from the who-can-hit-who-first-for-maximum-damage norm, people get pissed.

Does anyone out there take fighting classes? If you do, you already know this. If not, here's a lesson:
The best tactic in a fight is to keep your distance and guard up. When you see an opening, swiftly swoop in, do a few quick hits, then duck out. That is why I don't use uber strong weapons that take forever to swing. I use dragon long sword/blessed long sword/baby's nails/makoto etc. I'll hang back with the tower shield up. When the opportunity arises, move in, do a few quick attacks and roll away.

But the problem with these uber weapons is IF they can get a strike in, they'll kill me 1-2 hits. So I need to bring them down to my level. Hence, scraping spear.

Call it cheap if you'd like. It's just another tactic that's different from the norm.

Re: PvP and A Duel

Nick1Nintendo 07 Apr 2010 18:36

Exactly ^_^ It's usually a mutual desire to close…see who can kill who first. When you don't do that, some of the msot experienced PvP'ers haven't a clue what they should be doing.

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Re: PvP and A Duel

(account deleted) 07 Apr 2010 16:31

Is there anyone online now that i can practive 1v1 dueling ?

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Re: PvP and A Duel

esdren 08 Apr 2010 00:35

id be happy to help ya practice bionic, psn is esdren. im usually on around 10pm pst for a few hours.

Re: PvP and A Duel

Rome921 08 Apr 2010 23:56

You know, i read the first guy's main thread post, then scroll down and see everyone arguing about ethics, and weapons, fairness,…..
you guys are ruining PVP for yourselves,
I GOT TWO WORDS FOR YOU
FIST FIGHT!!!!
whenvever someone invades me, or if i randomly feel like invading, i quickly send PSN message FIST FIGHT??? haven't gotten a No yet