which build is end up stronger?

which build is end up stronger?

mibu 06 Apr 2010 03:33

I have a character with SL 31(Royal). I am planning on making Spellsword as the Character build section recommended. is that build good for a pure pvp character? I want to have a player with a pure PVP. any suggestion what class should I start with and what kind of build is effective toward pvp?

Why many players increasing points in Faith stat? what would that stat benefit a character?
Which of the stat should I add to be able to use a large weapon effectively? str or endurance?

I am new here. Just played this game for the second day.

thanks for your help.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

KeggznEggz 06 Apr 2010 06:14

Each build has its pro's and con's; as long as you follow the build's guide (Spellsword) you'll have a pretty effect character. It'll tell you what class to start with, where to spend levels, magic to use, and equipment to wear. There is no one build stronger than the other, per say, it depends on how skilled you are at using the builds abilities effectively.

As far as using a large weapon, strength and endurance are equally important. You need enough strength to use the weapon effectively and enough endurance to change attacks together. And people choose which stats to increase based on the type of build they choose, so people who place a large amount of levels in faith are working on faith builds utilizing the LSoM or Blessed weapons, etc.

Last edited on 06 Apr 2010 06:18 by KeggznEggz Show more

Re: which build is end up stronger?

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 14:32

KeggnzEggz is right. If you do choose to use a wepaon besides katana, that's fine; since the Strength and Dexterity requirements will probably go down (I only had them there for use of the katana), you can adjust them to fitt your new weapon and use the rest for Endurance. If they go up…well, a few points could always come out of Vitality or Magic. Just not too many ^_^

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

clickrush 06 Apr 2010 13:02

i do not like the build there very much. the editor put 8 points in STR only to be able to wear uchigatana in one hand.

my suggestion would be to only increase STR up to 10 points so you can wield War Scythe as a main weapon in two hands (if you wield a weapon in two hands then you get a 50% STR bonus: 10*1,5=15 STR, War scythe needs 14 points). then i would chose a Kilij as a backup weapon (also two handed) to finish off your opponents quicker while doing a stunlock (R1 spam and finish with R2). with this build you are more flexible and you can put the 8 points in a different stat (magic up to 50 and the rest into endurance or vitality). or to put it in a more general way: just dont put points into strength only to be able to wear any good weapon in one hand. it doesnt make much sense. better put less points into it and profit 1,5 times more while wielding the weapon of your choice two handed.

18 points in faith are only needed if you want to use Talisman of the Beast which can cast miracles and spells (you save a weapon slot). you need to be able to cast miracles because second chance is absolutely imbalanced.

by the way: this guide only promotes three possible spell sets which is kinda narrow minded. you should also consider to mix other spells into it if you like. such as firespray, homing soul arrow, light weapon. you could for example use firestorm and light weapon (which increases your weapon damage and scales with magic).

its also weird that this guide promotes death cloud and poison cloud as spells. these are actually spells that do not scale with your magic stat as far as i know (iam quite sure). and you have plenty of other usefull spells that actually increase with the magic stat so they will deal much, much more damage. if you want to poison someone then just use kunai. poison cloud and death cloud are better suited for non caster builds as tactical utilities.

another weapon possiblity in this build that should be mentioned is wearing only one two handed weapon (right hand) in addition with wooden catalyst (left hand) and a kris blade as secondary (right hand) + the talisman of your choice in the secondary left hand to cast second chance from time to time. with this build you would do more damage with your spells (also light weapon), since you get more spellpower from wooden+krisblade. krisblade doesnt increase light weapon damage but wooden catalyst does (even if you equip it and then two hand your weapon). this would then be a weapon set with less flexibility but much more damage.

if you need more in depth information about pvp then go and read the (sticky) pvp guide in these forums. it gives you a very nice overlook and mentions all weapons that are usefull.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 14:29

All good points, Clickrush ^_^ Allow me to explain some things:

I suggested the katana because it is fast and I like the moveset. I am not a fan of Polearms because, honestly, they seem cheap. They're able to pull off a stunlock from phantom range. And let me just say that I do NOT promote the katana "push" stunlock; but dual katanas are good on their own for faster alternating swing speed.

Regarding Talisman of Beasts, with 18 Faith it will outdamage the Wooden Catalyst until your Magic is incredibly high, way higher than it is practical to increase it in PvP. The only other option, if you wanted a stronger Catalyst, would be the Insanity Catalyst. I don't like that for PvP because you need to fire spells many, many times before they ever connect, which makes having low MP a nightmare. The only use for a Wooden Catalyst in this build would be a marginally stronger Light Weapon. And, as an added note, Light Weapon can't be cast on Crescent or Moon-upgraded weapons.

There are many possible Spell Slots; I listed those I found to be most effective for me. I have tried others, but there isn't room to list them all.

You have a point about the clouds not scaling with Magic, but I found them useful for a few reasons not many seem to have recognized. One, they can inflict Poison/ Plague, cutting the effectiveness of your opponents healing items. Two, Plague can drastically reduce stamina regeneration, which is important in PvP. Clouds also keep your opponent away from you; you can cast a cloud, walk into it and heal, then fire on your opponent from where they can't see you. Most won't dare attack for fear they'll be infected. There's also the physchological factor involved. I find many opponenets, once infected, will keep trying to gain enough room to manually scroll through their inventory for a recovery item.

So, that's it ^_^

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

clickrush 06 Apr 2010 16:14

reasonable :)

Re: which build is end up stronger?

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 16:18

Thank you, your points were good ones as well ^_^

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

mibu 06 Apr 2010 18:05

thanks guys. this is very helpful to me. so, which weapon do you think suitable for this build? anyone tries how much max damage could be inflict? I am trying to make a comparison to fight pure melee build. I am thinking that in almost all MMORPG, melee build always on top of mage build. the reasons are melee build has a lot of of hp and the no MP use (eliminating another factor to not be able to attack), the attack damage is usually big and easier to inflict. does anyone could explain how this build could overcome a pure melee type character?

there is no mention that this build will use shield. is shield not necessary in pvp? also, what kind of ring and set of armors to use? and how do you get "blessed" or "cursed" or "moonlight" thing infront of armor/weapons? I do not understand about upgrading with different kind of stone. whats the different between the 2 blacksmith that are available in the game? I have killed the acolyte of God before saving Saint Urbain, will this cause any problem at all?

what is "tendency" in this game? how does it affect the game? how to obtain the black or white tendency?

I am sorry that I asked million of questions. I am a noob and try to learn as fast as I could.

I appreciate all the help. also, if someone could help me(donating) unused items, I would really appreciate that. I am level 31.

thanks

Re: which build is end up stronger?

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 18:32

Well, it depends. I personally prefer dual Uchigatanas, but you can use Polearm or some other weapon if you want. Generall Great Axes and Polearms have the highest damage, but Uchigatanas and Large Swords are good too, and they swing faster. Try out the different weapon types and see what you like.

In Demon's Souls, Magic usually has the best firepower. Oftentimes one spell will outdo multiple hits of another weapon type. It depends on your build. The trick is getting those spells to hit consistently, and using the right spells for different situations. You also have to worry about conserving your MP, like you said.

The main advantage of Magic is by far versatality. There are multiple spells for each damage type, and they all work differently. If everything fired like Soul Ray there would be no point. But if you use Ignite or Fire Spray, new possibilities open up. Your opponent can't dodge every attack; eventually they will make a mistake, and when your spell hits they'll sorry they didn't dodge it. Of course, it's very hard to rely on Magic alone…it can be done by experts, but it's more practical to mix melee into your build. Katanas seem to complement Magic well, as they are fast and have different methods of use. Dual, two-handed, one-handed + shield, etc.

Shields are not very good for PvP. Most of the weapons you'll see quickly break through shield guards. You're better off rolling away. The only weapons shields could be effective against are katanas and Magic, though most spells take a good degree of Endurance to block. As for Rings and Armor. If you're invading as a Black Phantom, you'll always want Cling Ring and Foe's Ring equipped. In Body form, Ring of Magical Sharpness and any other of your choice.

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/upgrade

Weapon Upgrades link above. There's links and information on that page that will help you with upgrading your weapons properly. The blacksmith in the Nexus is very limited; he can only do a few types of upgrades. The Blacksmith in 2-1 can do anything once you give him the Flamelurker's Soul.

Killing the Acolyte of god will have no effect on your game.

World Tendency
Character Tendency

No problem, answering questions gives us stuff to do ^_^ And I know how hard this game is to pick up, so…yeah.

Good luck with your game ^_^

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Last edited on 06 Apr 2010 18:35 by Nick1Nintendo Show more

Re: which build is end up stronger?

clickrush 06 Apr 2010 18:35

oh dear so many questions…

"so, which weapon do you think suitable for this build?"

whatever weapon you like the most is suitable. war scythe is easy to use, it can stunlock, it can deal fine damage and is good as a defensive weapon and good vs every other weapon (only very good players will try to parry it, others will try to flank/backstab you or attack after you missed them). uchigatana is a balanced weapon between speed, range and damage. kilij is a very aggressive weapon but has probably the best damage/second and low stamina usage. kilij stunlocks very nicely if you r1 spam. there are even more good weapons you can use in a caster/melee hybrid. but these can be upgraded as with "moon" or with "crescent". both upgrades are equal in my eyes.

"does anyone could explain how this build could overcome a pure melee type character?"

with a pure caster or a hybrid caster you can end a fight very fast and you have about the same HP as melee(str/dex/faith)-builds. actually as a pure caster you can spend some more points in vitality than for example a dex-builded character. the drawback is: you have less or almost no stamina. stamina is a main source for rolling, running, attacking etc. so its defense and offense at the same time. you compensate this matter with your high intelligence. with more spells and mana you can be very aggressive and deplete someones stamina pretty fast if you hit him. if you have a hybrid build then you will quickly change between melee attacks and spells. this gives you a tactical advantage. so yes! caster builds are very good in pvp but at the same time they are a bit harder to use in some situations.

"is shield not necessary in pvp?"

shields are awesome. i use a shield with high hit resistance to block and with a parry to set up ripostes. but shields dont fit caster and caster hybrids in my opinion, because you have lower stamina than melee builds. that means your opponent can break your guard simply by bashing you while you block them. only use a shield with a magic build if you go for pure magic melee. but then you will have only 1-2 spells and a very low manapool. still viable imo.

"also, what kind of ring and set of armors to use?"

rings as a phantom: foe's/friends ring +cling ring. rings in body form: anything you like that gives you any advantage.

"and how do you get "blessed" or "cursed" or "moonlight" thing infront of armor/weapons? I do not understand about upgrading with different kind of stone. whats the different between the 2 blacksmith that are available in the game?"

in world two you will eventually find a different blacksmith. he has the more advanced upgrades, including demon's souls upgrades. as a pure caster you want to have a crescent+5 upgrade on your weapon of choice. as a hybrid you like moon+5 more since you will have a bit more STR and DEX to make use of the parameters (you deal more damage with moon on a hybrid/melee magic build).

ok i answered all pvp related (more or less…) questions.

for the rest of the questions: please read the wiki a bit more carefully. you will find everything there.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 18:41

LOL Clickrush we said almost the exact same things ^_^ I could have waited a little bit before replying and saved myself a lot of typing.

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

LadyzPrince 06 Apr 2010 18:26

Good points however I don't know why so many people are scared of poison clould, death cloud and acid cloud. When someone uses these the possablitys are they are afraid of one on one combat And has low hp,which means just charge right through the clouds and hack away. That's what I do since I could care less about how much it takes dwn my hp. Another reason is if they use these clouds mutipule times it takes quiet a lot out of their mp depending on how many they use giving you a huge advantage when they stay behind and just eat spices, and spam or cast attack spells at you. I for one have a Mage build and do this method a lot and have seen many ppl to back off as they see clouds coming. I've never seen someone daring to go past and Hack away. It's either charge through or wait for ur death later when they've got their space and time to prepare firestom or HSA. Many ppl I fought on my pure Mage had tons of opportunity to kill me in one hit as I do not have much hp,but with them not daring enough to charge through it, it costs many the pvp.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 18:37

Those are all good points. Logical points. The problem with logic is when you're in a PvP match, the situation is tense and fast-paced, and they worry too much about the after-effects of charging through the cloud and miss their chance to attack. At least, that's my guess. I can't say why they're so afraid of the clouds. But they usually are, and I will use that to my advantage ^_^

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

LadyzPrince 06 Apr 2010 19:00

Shields can be a great advantage for mages if they reconcider and use a tower shield possably +5. I pvped Nelard just yesterday with my BBS build and my lv94 (secret build for tournment) it took awhile just to try and find a weakness to penetrate and break his guard. This can be used as a good way to lure in your opponents and bam firestorm etc. Considering he has a scraping spear with a babys nail it was really hard to kill him because of his guard. Breaking all my armour and rendering them useless. I then took off all my armour, equiped the ring that allowed for dmg increase when low on hp and charged him. Eventually I defeated him. But I have to say that was the longest pvp I ever had. He had a absolute defence along with firestorm. There was even a point where I felt I was gonna lose cause I could't break his def, he killed me but I had second chance, so did he. Overall it's an outstanding match and anyone wanting to c a absolute def Mage kinda person in battle Nelard is the one ur looking for to change ur minds about how shields can save ur hide. The battle with my lv94 and him is to long to explain, however I can say I lost as I did not have the required items and weapon I need yet. He was an outstanding opponent, fight him and u'd agree,( beware price for repair is a bleep) lol

Re: which build is end up stronger?

Rekatan 06 Apr 2010 19:39

One thing that many overlook that I've found works extremely well is any parrying shield + crescent/moon killij.

This ramps up the difficulty level of an already difficult build, but is EXTREMELY potent if you know what you're doing with it.

Killij has an excellent 1h stunlock that can pop second chance on many opponents if you're 40 end, so it remains a very effective weapon with the now null offhand.

The shield on the other hand is not for blocking (unless to setup a parry). It's solely there to parry, or provide the threat of a parry. You'll need to read the parry/riposte section of the guide to even begin to fathom how parries can work reliably in PVP, then it takes practice practice practice, hours of practice to really grasp parrying some of the more difficult weapons.

In the long run however I feel it provides a significant improvement over dual uchigatana. Any R1 spammers are left at a huge disadvantage, and (the smart ones) will often end their attacks at only one swing, allowing you plenty of room to counter-swing with your own, and severely cutting their offensive capability. The times they don't cut their combos short it's an extremely easy matchup, as they'll likely pop 2nd chance from your riposte, and then drop to your firestorm that follows - which is really where spellsword truly benefits from parry/riposte.. The ease with which it goes from a devastatingly high damage riposte to a 1k+ damage firestorm is absurd, and borders on broken, if it weren't so difficult to master parrying.

As for which shield, I recommend dark silver. It's an expensive investment, but well worth it for the complete damage mitigation it provides during your setup block (only dragon weapons and turpentine enchanted can get through). This also opens up dual uchigatana for only 2 more str - which is still the stronger equip set for a couple matchups IMO, and so if you know your opponent will be swinging one of the few weapons which are 99% unparryable, you'll want that option over sheild+killij.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

clickrush 06 Apr 2010 19:43

because of this: I just made a thread for such questions :) maybe it helps one or two ppl

http://demonssouls.wikidot.com/forum/t-232341/beginners-casual-pvp-guide

Re: which build is end up stronger?

mibu 06 Apr 2010 21:28

wooow.. you guys rock! thanks for the outstanding info. I am learning quickly.

unrelated question: is there anyway to "watch" the topic of forum that I posted/replied? something like notification send to email telling that someone has replied in the topics.

overall, thanks a lot guys!

Re: which build is end up stronger?

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 21:31

I'm pretty sure all forums have something like that, but I don't know how it works here.

And no problem ^_^

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

mibu 06 Apr 2010 21:55

by the way.. is "Royal" the best to start with, for this build? what makes the different between male character and female character other than armor? which one would be stronger? or both are the same?

As I read the blueblood build and North regalia build (or probably VIT build), a hybrid melee/mage build will have almost no chance to win since there is no damage concentration (magic or slash, both are just so so). is that true? I read that north regalia does not require any point on any of the stat coz the nature of the weapon. so, all stat point could be filled towards vitality. just need an opinion on this since the BBS and NR builds are the most common builds (I heard).

regards,

kyo

Re: which build is end up stronger?

Nick1Nintendo 06 Apr 2010 22:03

Yes! Always, ALWAYS start with either Royal, Temple Knight or Knight. They all have 7 Luck, and the lower your Luck is the more stat points you can spend elsewhere. Unless, of course, you are using the BBS ^_^

There's nothing "so-so" about either damage types with my Spellsword. I do great damage with both my katanas and my spells. That's the way I designed the build. With the Magic stat at 45, the Moon-upgraded katanas get a huge damage boost, as they scale with Magic. And with Monk's Head Wrappings, Kris Blade and Foe's Ring equipped, spells do great damage as well.

The only build that would outdo my Spellsword's Magic power is a Pure Mage…but that would mean taking Magic past 50, which isn't worth the investment, in my opinion. And I do similar DPS with other melee builds; they just have more Endurance, meaning more swings, and higher Vitality, meaning when I hit them they have more total health to last them. I could stop using Magic entirely and be like any Dexterity build, except I would have slightly lower Vitality and moderately lower Endurance. Or, I could stop using melee completely and be a fully-functional Mage, but with slightly lower Intelligence and spell power. The build makes up for these small shortcomings by combining both styles of play; it's difficult to use correctly, though, which is why I don't recommend this build for beginners.

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PSN: Nick1Nintendo

Ask my anything. About Magic, that is.

Re: which build is end up stronger?

mibu 06 Apr 2010 22:13

ah, I c now. so most ppl will stop lvling at 120 and just non-stop pvp-ing/invading someone else?

how about the male vs. female character?

"I could stop using Magic entirely and be like any Dexterity build,…"

what kind of character type/skill/play is the Dex build for? what would dex affect in character movement? is the character swing faster? cast faster? regen stamina faster? or the arrow movement are faster?